What classes do you think today are underpowered?

I think the paladin that you are referring to is also saying in this thread that he does have to push pretty hard, and meanwhile a SK will mention that they need help while they are casually tanking 5 mobs.
I know hes one of the very top paladins and it sounds like he is experiencing very similar things as I am.
I am curious what classes you think are in worse shape than paladins.
Its going to be a very short list.
For me, worst tank is paladin.
Worst caster is wizard.
Worst melee is berserker.
Worst hybrid is ranger.
Worst priest is cleric.

Are there situations that any of those 5 classes can shine? Sure.
There are just a lot more situations where they do not shine.

So guild DPS for RA definately doesnt suck, as Leex is a member. I dont play a pali, but have seen several in multiple guilds do very well, some even better then sk's. I'm not saying pali's couldnt use a bump but they arent in a horrible spot.

monk by far is in the worst shape of any/all classes imo,
bard could use some love,
zerkers arent bad off but could use lower CD on mangeling,
wizards can be awesome, but could use some love too,
and since I'm an ench myself I'd love to see CD removed from vortex and reap for a nice boost but we arent in a bad spot either lmao

All tanks struggle to keep aggro on a full beastlord burn. As a bst, you just accept that you are going to get aggro, run your tank disc, and FD when that wears off.

I know what guild he is in...ima grab some pop corn for this XD. No his guilds DPS does not suck not even close.

No. I don't hear beasts pulling agro off good SK's at all.

Well, I don't know about good, but I can pull aggro off any tank class. You might ask your SK fellow raiders if they have problems with bst pulling aggro off them. I am just saying if bst are your reason for saying paladin don't have enough aggro, you need a stronger argument.

I'm actually curious for this part. Which agro spells are you using; Stuns or crushes? Do you do your 6-spell 'agro mash key' on a single target or are you flipping targets to gain/hold agro on multiples? Which raid events do you need that much time / agro to hold a mob because it hasn't died quickly? I can only think of the constructs in the Firefall and the blobs & mini's in Deepshade 2 event which actually take more then 20seconds to kill once the MA and dps is on target.

But what your also saying is you do not mind having agro spells on a long refresh but can't afford having your spell bar locked out for an extra 1.5seconds for a targeted heal?

Well.. bursts are single friendly or targets target, so technically, you don't have to come off target to heal yourself when your tanking. As for coming off target vs staying on to heal others... true, bursts have an additional +1.5sec spell bar lockout and a much longer recast. But they can be casted much much quicker (.25s vs 3s) and land for much more hps (23k vs 18k) **All numbers are from spell info before AA mods and focuses. Not to mention the trade off of being available to cast on all 54 players in a raid vs only 6 in group has a night and day difference with extreme advantage for the bursts over group heals.

I keep 1 group heal spell up and I might use it once a week during the 9 raid clears. But to place in 3 group heals on your spell bar is wasted space.

Oh boy, someone's feeling some type of way huh?

Please go ahead and quote my post within this thread, where I say anything remotely close to a comparison between SK and Paladin. I think you have reading comprehension problems?

By the way, it's really funny that you want to talk smack about my guild's DPS, especially since you don't know what guild I'm in? That's a pretty ignorant statement my guy.

RoTE placed what, #9th this year? Reckless Ascension placed #3 this year, and #2 last year. That being said, you're welcome to call my guilds dps sucky, but what does that make your DPS?

Oh here we go with more RA nonsense.
It seems like 9/10 times that someone is talking trash on the forums its you guys.
Most sensitive guild in EQ? Maybe!
Since I created ROTE we have beaten RA several times, and most of the time that RA has beaten ROTE it has been by a matter of minutes.
You beat us this year on one of the easiest expansions ever. Way to go!

So, since you think I have reading comprehension problems, literally the first post I made on this thread that YOU REPLIED TO, I was comparing paladins and SKs.
There is no question that a good paladin can keep agro on 1 mob on raids, but there is also no question that a good SK can keep agro on many mobs on raids, and do it just as easily, if not better than the paladin with their 1 mob.

There is nothing whatsoever that you are going to say that will change the fact that paladins are by far the weakest tank and need a healthy boost to get in balance with SKs and warriors.
Additionally and most importantly, no class should ever be balanced around the extreme outliers of what elite level players of the class are able to do.
Your ability to observe and evaluate the paladin class as a whole is a bad joke.

Finally, the title of this thread is "what classes do you think are underpowered".
My opinion is that paladin is the most under-powered class in the game, compared to similar peer classes, and I have stated my case.
If you disagree, I couldn't care less. Move along.

The choices are probably 6 of these 10 with some preference based on hate and recast time:

Timer 20 Force - recast 60s
Timer 17 Valiant - recast 6s
Timer 7 Brilliant - recast 18s
Timer 6 Crush/Lesson - recast 24s
Timer 5 Crush/Stun - recast 12s (Type 3 focus -1s)
Timer 4 Stun - recast 12s
Timer 3 Force - recast 30s
Timer 0 Honor - recast 3.5s
Timer 0 Audacity - recast 11.5s
Timer 0 Hymnal - recast 18s

Parlay
Ecliptic
Crush
Crush
Valiant
Pious

Seeing your trying to build max agro off the hop. You can stay on a single target or swap depending on your try hard DPS players, resists and some SK going ham on anything and everything on the extended target window. Downside is Parlay and no hate override. Add in the AA's FoD, Divine call and Hallowed, leaving Beacon and Heroic Leap if you want to add more button press front loaded agro.

Is it perfect...no, but it allows nonstop agro spell casting. Will different raid guild make ups influence what's best used....always. Currently there is no one agro line up

So, if someone wants to start a legit Paladin agro mash key thread feel free.

This feels about right to me. Though I think argument could be made for Monk vs. Berserker. Pure melee have perpetually been in balance limbo.

And certainly there's varying degrees of "worst." For example, though Ranger could certainly use some love, I don't feel they're nearly as bad off as Clerics or Wizards.

Well firstly, I wasn't talking about Abazz (no offense Abazz), I was talking about my husband.

Second, I don't know how much is actually said by saying that Paladins are the worst tanks in a list of three. It would be much more informative to discuss the gaps between first and second or second and third.

Thirdly, I never said Paladins didn't need some help, I just said that you are overstating the degree to which they need help.

Fourthly, I think Tolzol summarized the needs of each class pretty well so I don't feel like it needs to be said again. However, if we are just using your list (which I don't necessarily agree with) I still think Paladins would be the lowest priority on that list.

Lastly, I don't think it is particularly helpful to say these are the worst in these archetypes because you miss the other classes within those archetypes which should be prioritized over the worst in a different archetype. For example, I would say that Monks and Enchanters should be prioritized over Rangers.

You mean:

Timer 4 Stun - recast 12s
Timer 3 Force - recast 30s

... because Timer 3 is the Force with HoT recourse.

My take on paladins:

"Eh, it could be worse"

Pious Force timer 4

At this point any attempt at developing any class further would be welcome. They’ve shown virtually no interest in gameplay.

Depends on server type also, Live vs TLP the picture is a little different, on TLP it also depends upon which expansion you look at where the balance is badly skewed, most are aware how poor Rogue are in classic.

But certainly on live Monk have a lot to be unhappy about, on TLP they are in a very good position, overpowered even, until late in the game. So changes need to be carefully done, increasing disciplines/abilities/AA which appear in the later game is okay but there is a need to avoid increases to early-game stuff or it risks disporoptionately contributing to yet more Monk power-creep in the earlier game (and by earlier game I mean Classic to RoF at least).

I'll agree that monks have been in limbo for years. Been once since 2003. I've ridden the path of the forgotten class.

Berserkers have a few years to go in the penalty box before they get to cry!

I’d rather we not continue with this mindset (joking or not). I’m sure that’s part of why they think it’s ok to not give a damn about class development. I can understand they don’t have enough people to address everything that needs to be addressed. But the complete lack of effort to address anything related to class balance/development whatsoever I don’t understand at all. Content and class development are the two most important aspects of the game for most people. Half of which goes largely ignored/untouched year after year now outside of copy paste for every other expansion which is in no way sustainable. (Yes i understand lag is also very important but that does get actively looked into and worked on to my understanding anyway).