What classes do you think today are underpowered?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, May 25, 2023.

  1. yepmetoo Abazzagorath


    Paladins are alright. Really just need more front loaded snap aggro that isn't resistable. Getting a few resists at the start can be a problem on full burn.

    I don't have problem with aggro over anyone except warriors and sks, and that doesn't matter (single target). Just be nice to not have to fight so hard and sacrifice healing for aggro, considering over half our spell gems are needed for aggro.

    More ae aggro would be good. Nothing like popping every ae thing, spamming group heals even for aggro, while SK goes "I have 5 can someone take some" while I am barely holding on to one, and seeing my aggro no higher than 40% in the first 10 seconds of an add wave.
    Maedhros and alanus like this.
  2. Warpeace Augur

    Except this is 100% nonsense about adding a toggle ago to our "self only heals" that does nothing to address the actual problem and creates addition class problems. It's not even about making a choice; you get 13 spell gem slots and you're not going to bother loading two or three of those spells with their excessively long refresh. It's a poorly though out gimmick fix that probably fits their play style but is not a quality choice for the class overall. How many spell gems will players dedicate to that terrible spell line if this was pushed through since you would become a worse tank or group healer?

    The group game is more forgiving on spell choices. Raiding not so much. If your raid tanking you probably have six gems dedicated to your agro mash key, two for your self buffs, three for group heals then twin cast and splash. And that only allows you to swap between generating agro for tanking and keeping your group up while adding raid healing / cures.

    The right thing is to continue pushing to have our designated agro spells and mod adjusted up to fix the agro problem as part of the thread in the class section pertaining to next year.
  3. alanus Elder

    I didn't mean our self-only heals, I meant any of your own heal that lands on yourself. So if you frequently cast Burst on yourself when tanking (which is something that I do, Burst is always on cooldown when I am raiding), that would count. Splash heals that land on yourself would count. Etc...

    I always keep both TOV and TOL Burst spells up for raids. Right now, heals are 1/4 base heal amount aggro. 5x that would mean Burst of Daylight would now do around 23.8k aggro and Burst of Dawnbreak would do around 29k aggro and it'd allow you to help keep yourself alive. So in your example, you could replace 2 of your aggro gems with Burst. That would also allow you to patch heal yourself and others.

    But either way, we both can agree that paladin aggro needs fixing. I don't care how they do it, I just want them to do it
  4. Szilent Augur

    could you substantiate that please?
    Nennius likes this.
  5. Windance Augur

    Anyone care to explain how heal threat works?

    I assume the threat generated is applied to all mobs that have you on their hate list?

    If so it doesn't seem like a good idea to just make a blanket adjustment to the heal/threat multiplier.
  6. Warpeace Augur

    It's more a witness check. So, no its not a good idea at all.

    Some are pushing something like this to also boost AE agro. The problem is we lack reactive healing like the SK has to supplement our normal healing abilities. So, go ahead and yank agro on a bunch of mobs and complain about being dead all the time because Paladin are just not designed for that kind of combat.
  7. Nniki Augur

    Supposedly 50% chance at a successful witness check (research not conclusive) with hate generation equal to 2/3 base heal amount with a 1.5k cap according to online e-m-u-lator research found in a Google search (link can't be shared).
  8. Cloud the Third Augur

    So we all know SK are alot better at multiple mobs but which is better on a single target? Pally or SK? Maybe pallies need better fast casting group heals to make them better at a single target that is aeing the group so they can keep their party alive better than SK.

    So SK would be better on raids with tons of adds they can keep aggro on but aren't aeing much damage and PAL would be better at small amount of adds with big aes so the group doesn't require as much healing.
  9. Nightops Augur

    No, just stop now.

    Do you really have 6 spell gems dedicated to agro?
    And then 3 more for --Group-- heals in addition to splash? (I really hope you mean 3 heal spells, not just group heal spells.)

    Are your raids sooo lacking diversity within classes and quantity of numbers that you need to keep your spell bar prepared to do BOTH raid tanking and group healing?

    Lets be honest here, can you even use those 6 spell gems for agro before they refresh? or better question, how many mobs are still alive by the time you cast those 6 agro spells? Just pick up 1 trash and be a happy tank.

    As for group healing, you, your group, and your raid in general will be better off if you move to actively working burst healing based off pre-set ETWs instead of being a 'group healing' concerned paladin. Get on your shaman to keep their alliance buffs on active tanks. That will cover the majority of any group healing so you can free up 2 of the 3 spell gems.
    Metanis likes this.
  10. TsiawdMS TittyGOAT

    Does the heal target of target only generate hate for the one mob? Where as, Splash would potentially generate aggro on all mobs? Just this week on firefall, I went from like 1 on aggro on constructs to being in the 80-90s on them from a twincast splash while they were in range while being kited.
  11. TsiawdMS TittyGOAT

    Cough* i have seen tsiawd take aggro on mean streets now a few times =p

    But, what you are saying does seem to be the largest gap difference between the 2 knights regarding aagro v heal spell. I'd also like to see them lower the cast time / cool down on crush spells and valiant.
  12. Nniki Augur

    I would think the hate lists of the player(s) receiving the heal(s) is what would be relevant in that determination, rather than the target type of the spell. Splash has a hate override to consider as far as the math would be concerned though.
  13. Wulfhere Augur

  14. Wulfhere Augur

    Yah, witness hate doesn't directly aggro surrounding mobs. It adds the paladin to the hate list of most (all) of the NPC that have your healed target on their hate list. Someone has to already be aggro and hurting for paladins to gain aggro this way.

    Whereas an SK can directly gain aggro with their AE hate spells and this is key to grabbing a wave of add spawns very quickly and without needing a target to cast upon.

    Splash has a base hate cap of 100 per healed target. It's very low aggro but it can still peel mobs who only have assist or proximity aggro to e.g. a kiter.
    Szilent likes this.
  15. Szilent Augur

    Splash hate is hard capped at 100, all iterations of it have been since being nerfed bare months after the first spell was made. If you took agro with a Splash, that is *not Splash's fault*
  16. TsiawdMS TittyGOAT

    Interesting. yea it was weird. I'm not sure if the rune proc from 1her also played into it. Does the hard cap 100 get multiplied by beguile effects?
  17. Claan Elder

    "What classes do you think today are underpowered?"

    Monk. Wizard.
  18. Wulfhere Augur

    Yes that hate value in spdat is not a cap. It's base hate override, for what a spell would have generated otherwise. All modifiers still apply once base hate is calculated.
  19. Warpeace Augur

    Yes, I have 6 agro spells not counting AA being used continually on cool down in my agro mash key while tanking.

    Burst heals, nothing better than locking out your spell bar for 3 seconds for a single target heal. Needing to target a specific player and heal vs staying on target and healing have different results.
  20. Maedhros High King

    It would be useful to know what guild you raid with, until then you're just an anonymous forum goblin.
    Did it ever occur to you that maybe your guilds dps sucks, and thus the paladins are not put under stress?
    There is not one single reasonable person that believes a paladin can pump out as much agro as a SK.
    Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself.