Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, May 25, 2023.
my kinda guy! I like this!
It would be easier to list the needs of like all classes. The most underwhelming classes imo are zerker, monk, cleric atm. My list would look like this though i don’t play all of these classes so some might disagree. Keep in mind this is specific to live, some of the comments in this thread seem like they are from TLP players.
Bard - Mostly ok, some of their songs could probably be looked into to be less underwhelming but overall they are in good shape.
Beastlord - In great shape rn, only thing i could possibly think of for them is slightly better mana recovery tools
Berserkers - Need some pretty massive work in regards to DPS thanks to stagnation and nerfs.
Clerics - Their healing is great, issue with that is there is so much over healing nowadays that it makes the class dull, they could use some form of DPS or interesting utility overhaul to make it less boring.
Druids - Way better mana recovery tools, better heals for sure, otherwise in great shape
Enchanter - Could use a decent bump in DPS, bring back more of a need/use for CC?
Magician - In great shape
Monk - Has great defensive tools but for a dps class they are currently bottom of the barrel, could use a massive dps increase
Necromancer - In great shape
Paladin - Could use some better AE aggro abilities, i could see an increase in dps if their killshot ability was nerfed at the same time, otherwise not in bad shape at all
Ranger - Pretty much the same as what was put for beastlords
Rogue - Outside of assassinateable mobs, could use a decent increase in DPS
Shadowknight - Nothing, easily most powerful class in game
Shaman - Nothing, easily the second most powerful class in game
Warrior - Could use some form of a self heal, give them something similar but better than the berserker AA that heals for x% of your damage output passively, otherwise not in bad shape at all.
Wizard - While not as bad off as they were, they still need to be brought in line with mages and necros DPS wise
man I been trying to kibosh the one active healing ability I have for years. Passive would be very cool, but probably busted, and might negatively impact the lag situation? I don't recall where I read it, but it's in my head that the melee leeching abilities go through the spell system like procs.
What I've advocated for going back most of a decade is converting our heal ability into a large, passive regular regen.
Yea whatever works best for sure
Bard progression song is worthless...we clearly need some more power for bards.
I always thought that if you're wearing plate you should be fighting at bad breath range (I'm sure there's a Drakkin joke in there)
I think this is pretty spot on, good suggestions.
You appear to have not read what I typed at all.
Whatever a good paladin does while tanking, a good SK does better.
This is indisputable fact.
The reason you see me post things about what paladins need on a "weekly basis", which is an extreme exaggeration, is because I am the only high end paladin on the community resource council.
I am an advocate for the paladin class and since I am extremely aware of the class strengths and weaknesses I make posts, I reply to posts and I make an effort to stay involved.
When it comes to me being a little out of touch with the reality of what my class can actually do?
You have no idea what you're talking about or who you're talking to.
I know exactly what my class is capable of.
For someone who said it wasn't a shot at me, you seem to have gone out of your way to take a shot at me.
Woah, you're on the CRC? Wow, that's incredible.
Stop comparing to SK's different classes for different niches. Some handle AE aggro better than others, and some can heal groups while tanking without missing a step.
I apologize Maedhros, I know this won't feel good to read but you are 100% incorrect in the previous statement made earlier within this thread.
" DPS players constantly have to pay attention and hold back when a Paladin is tanking. Even if the Paladin can hold the down the fort, the entire group suffers because nobody can go all out and it comes boring"
I'm not sure if this was directed at the group game, or raid game. Either way, it is 100% false. I have Paladins in my guild that have no problem holding the fort down, while my raid DPS is going full tilt. Maybe their the exception to the rule? I do raid with some pretty good players, so that wouldn't surprise me.
However, even in the case that I just have the best Paladin's in my guild , that still lets you know that you have more to improve upon, if others can do something that you cannot. So it actually doesn't look like you know "exactly" what your class is capable of....Respectfully...
P.S - Trying to flex with your CRC title is hilarious, and I appreciate the laugh. Thank you
Okay, more thoughts on this, mostly priest focused.
Shaman - Fine as is.
A way to decrease the spell casting time of their heals, perhaps a healing stance.
A way to recover mana a little better. Something similar to the cleric Quiet Miricle ability.
Redo the vow line of spells, or a new AA stance that basiclly gives us a buff that doubles the cost of our healing spell, but gives all of our heals an intervention type nuke that hits our target's target. This way we can heal on raids, while offering a bit of dps. If we need to not damage things we can click it off. If we start burning through mana, click it off and switch back to just healing. This can be damage boosted over time with a focus AA line to keep it in line with future expansions.
OR redo our intervention line to have the same recast time as our remedy line.
A "live" version of Turn Undead. Holy Smite etc...
A group version of Divine Avatar (lower ranked than our personal buff). This gives us a little bit of adps for group situations.
Give all priest the same pet, shaman/druid/cleric. Controlable, a little dps. Shaman one sticks around, others should too.
OR A pet called Avatar that summons a pet version of our god. They do the same dps regardless of diety, but each diety has a different flavor or effect. I know this one is streaching it, but atleast it would be fun and you would see different things.
I don't really have any complaints about my beastlord, bard or shadowknight.
Along with Zerkers mentioned within my original post, I think Monks are dealing with a pretty similar situation. They may be a little better off just because they have utility over the Zerker, but definitely still need a nice rework.
Fwiw, Maedheros at least has advocated for the paladin class to get new abilities, has advanced the discussion on tanking with the snow cone (whether it is right or wrong) due to riposte strikethrough. and generally is trying to advance the class.
With that said, I do believe paladin can hold their own single target and where as they do not shine in putting out ae threat like sk's; they do have the ability to heal the entire raid. Each knight class imo are in relatively good spots. If champion's oath ever gets implemented it would close the mitigation gap by giving both the same amount of mitigation disc's available. Paladin dps could stand to increase vs non undead but I am not sure how they would do that.
That would be so cool just from an RP standpoint. I would love to see something like that.
If your paladins can keep aggro off a full burn beastlord outside of unending, then your dps is terrible.
Play a raid paladin and then see what SK can do and you'd see that Maedhros is 100% spot on. The people saying paladins are fine are never the ones playing paladin.
Yes, I can keep aggro, but if I am keeping aggro I am needing to spam my aggro AA/spells, and thus cannot heal or I possibly lose aggro. SKs, on the other hand, can tank 4 raid mobs np while just using their melee-to-heal abilities and lifetapping, which keeps building aggro while healing them.
My suggestion is to give paladins an enable/disable AA that makes heals that land on yourself do 5x aggro or something like that.
To be honest, I wasn't referring to a beastlord burning off the rip. That's likely one of the only occasions our Paladin's would have trouble when it comes to aggro generation. As far as DPS as a whole, you're welcome to call it terrible, it wouldn't be close to accurate, but do you booboo.
Within my post, can you please point out where I mention Shadowknights? The posts are not edited, so it's not like I'm trying to get one over on you.
Maedhros made a blanket statement saying that if a Paladin is tanking, DPS will need to pay more attention and hold back. In my experience, from what I've seen, outside of a burning beastlord ( happy Yepmetoo?! ) that's not the case.
Or maybe, I just have superior Paladin's in my guild? ...Who knows
You were doing alright until you posted this.
1. We would never turn it off.
2. It would generate AE agro that would be uncontrolled. Dumb design like rune agro.
3. Not the fix we need since they can adjust our own agro modifier and add additional ago to our AGRO spells.
I really think you are overstating the issue. Which, I get why you are doing it, I'm just not sure it is as helpful as you think it is.
I've watched a particular paladin in RoI for a long time now and there is one single player in all RoI that he has trouble keeping aggro off of and that player is a beastlord. Not all the beastlords mind you, just one. You can't really say that the DPS in RoI holds back. I happen to group with this paladin in group content quite a lot as well and I wouldn't take an SK over him (though I am biased ).
Could paladins use some tweeks? Yes. Are they in a terrible spot? Absolutely not. Far from the worst off and needing the most attention.
That's the point, though, you'd have to be careful when to use it. Although I do agree I'd prefer them adding aggro to our aggro spells, I don't see it happening based on the fact that it'd be a trivial change and they haven't done it
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