What are your minor annoyances about your class?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Darchon_Xegony, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    I know all classes have some desired changes of balance or potential new abilities, but in this thread I wanted to address some of the smaller things that annoy you about your class and their existing abilities.

    Speaking from primarily a druid:

    Weird oversight?
    • Chant of the Wulthan and Wildtender's Breeze are two different group cure spells we have, the former cures only corruption and the later cures poison/disease/corruption. It always seemed like an error to me that the later version had corruption cures rather than curse cures. As it stands we have two different spells that group cure corruption counters which makes no sense, and it makes us the only priest that cannot group cure curse debuffs.
    Stacking Issues:
    • Glare of Ro (AE) and Clasp of Ro (Single) debuff spells have a similar issue. The AE version is slightly stronger than the single version, preventing you from overwriting the AE version with the single version. This means we can't use the reflect heal on the single version if you or another druid uses the AE version. It would be really great if they had the same debuff values so they would overwrite each other.
    • Group Great Wolf and Single Great Wolf AA are on separate timers and druids have been alternating these two AAs constantly since Underfoot. Since VoA we've been able to maintain both of these permanently with no downtime. Since EoK the AAs refresh before the prior one wears off. The problem I have with these AAs is the single version is more powerful than the group version so you can often have issues where single is about to end and you hit group slightly early and then group bounces because it doesn't stack. It would be really great if the single and group lines had the same power.
    • Improved Twincast (AA) and Twincast (Spell). If you have Improved Twincast on and you cast Twincast, Twincast's 5 minute recast timer begins but it does not land. This may be due to Twincast spell being instant cast and it checking if it will land before it burns the recast timer, but I find it odd that if you try to use Bifold when you have Improved Twincast up it will prevent you from doing so and will not burn Bifold's recast timer, which is obviously the preferred.
    Inconsistent Spell Values:
    • Icerend Aura, really why is this a 6-minute duration? I get that the enchanter proc aura is also 6-minute duration, but at this point in the game I think all auras should be 30minutes+. Cycling in a spell gem every 6 minutes to cast this spell once for a negligible amount of mana is just a tedious aspect of the spell that should be gone.
    • Frenzied Growth and Icerend Breath these two spell lines are both 2.5 seconds, which puts them too fast to benefit from most spell haste effects. In the end this makes them slower than any spell with a base cast time of 3-4 seconds. These are spells that aren't cast extremely often in combat, but they really make me feel like time stands still compared to all the other spells we have even though it is only 0.5-1.0 second difference from a lot of our spells. I'd love to see both of these spells have their base cast time increased to 3 seconds so that spell haste works on them.
    • Spirits of Nature and Nature's Guardian pet swarm AAs are on the same recast timer and are generally used at the same time. My issue with these is that the Spirits of Nature AAs have a 100' range to target to summon the pet. Nature's Guardian has a 150' range to target to summon the pet. It would be really great if they had the same 150' range.
    Unintended Mechanics:
    • Composite Winds has a twincast blocker, I understand they don't want an extremely powerful long recast nuke to not twincast. But why then does it also consume a charge on Improved Twincast? It would be nice if the spell didn't consume charges on Twincast buffs if it has a Twincast blocker on it.
    • Defense of the Reptile defensive proc is detrimental with a reflected heal proc after. However if the mob in question is immune to fire the heal does not proc. I believe this is the same case for the other priest defensive proc buffs Shining and Ennui. As primarily defensive minded buffs, it would seem that the intent was to provide that defensive bonus first and then apply the detrimental component. It would be preferable if the defensive proc would fire the heal first on the player/merc and then reflect the debuff/stun/slow on the attacker afterwards.
    • Powersource itemization. I understand in TBM when powersources originally came out they sort of went overboard with 30 dferent variants and in the end people only used about 5 of them. The Xorbb one is too rare to even bother factoring in but since then we have been in the current 4 powersource meta from TDS>RoS>ToV. I feel like this combination of stats works for most of the archetypes, but as a druid I dislike how the priest one with hWis has negative spell damage and the caster one with spell damage has negative hWis

      It feels logical to make 4 powersources, one aimed at casters, priests, tanks, melee DPS. However it feels like a few of these aren't really balanced. The tank one has positive AC, HP, hSta/Dex/Agi. The only negatives on it are Mana/End and hWis/Int/Str. hStr is such a nonfactor that this doesn't matter at all it is basically an only upsides. The melee DPS one on the other hand has mediocre AC/HP/Mana and equiavlent +hDex to the tank powersource with additional hStr and negative hSta/Agi. I don't know anyone who would favor the melee DPS one over the tank one. hStr is negligible at this point in the game and you are trading off a large amount of HP/AC to get small amounts of hStr. Maybe it is time to move to a 2-Powersource meta where you just scrap the melee DPS powersource, make the hStr value on the tank one positive and then merge the caster/priest ones with positive hWis/Int and positive Heal Amount/Spell damage and keep everything else the same on them.

      Alternatively I would like to see a TBM style powersource situation where you get a handful of powersources each with a huge bonus to one area. Metal for AC + hAgi, Growth for HP +hSta, Ethereal for Mana+hWis/Int and then throw a few others in for only hDex, only spell damage, only heal amount, only clairvoyance.
    I am curious to hear other people's thoughts on minor annoyances they find with their class's abilities or itemization aimed at their class.
    Chlorogoth, Wulfhere and Ninelder like this.
  2. KrakenReality Augur

    Wow, that’s a lot of words for minor complaints.
  3. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    Composite Winds (and really every other damage composite line spell except wizards) can twincast. The blockers on the individual components stops quad casting, but the original spell twins. No blocker on the initial spell (if you look at the wizard one, you will see a blocker at the initial level and the individual effects).

    Your group/self wolf issue is easily solved with a social that blocks the self version, cast the group, then unblocks the self. Several classes (well, at least paladins with self armor/group armor) have the same issue.

    Spirits of Nature and Nature's Guardian are not on the same timer ... they do have the same recast though ... is that what you meant to say?

    I do agree that most the things on your list need a look/rethink though.
    Darchon_Xegony likes this.
  4. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    I don't know if "small" but here's a few things that annoy me about bards:

    • We are limited by being designed around songs having short duration and almost always a 3 second cast time, while many classes have gotten a lot of instant cast abilities, some of which are more powerful than our songs from the outset (longer duration, instant cast, group stuff)
    • We have the reputation of being a jack of all trades, but I don't think that's true any more. It was in classic. I tried to snare something in Kael the other day and failed to do so (our 114 snare casts a lvl 51 spell that gets resisted, or we can use a lvl 99 snare that lasts < 30 seconds).
    • I don't need 15 swarm pets
    • Most of our group songs have stagnated in benefit to the point we just use 4 DoTs which makes me sad
    • Many classes are their own ADPS
    • Many things don't work on us because we're bards (synergies, no sympathetic procs, Chromatic Haze, etc)
    • Bard focuses are ignored and when they do something it's often a mistake, later fixed by making the song not focusable. Our focuses have been the same since SoD.
    • Focus AA are designed around healing and damage, we don't get any improvements to our group songs other than Rk 1-3
    • We die really fast even with good raid gear. Sometimes when I can't pull something because my bard keeps dying, I pull with a group geared enchanter instead.
    • Single pulls aren't in style, tanks are so powerful now that it's better to pull multiples and AE. The skill and time spent splitting and chain pulling isn't worth it (not to mention NPC immunities).
    • Push nuke vs no-push nuke line
    Wulfhere, bbanz, Trebla7th and 5 others like this.
  5. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    On this day I learned a thing, I was told way back when TBM unlocked on Phinigel that the Composite winds line twincast blocker prevented it from twincasting and never noticed it actually would twincast the nuke portion of the spell! Glad I made this complain post and learned something!

    I know there is a hotkey I can generate to block and unblock a spell but those macros with /timers never work extremely well. I just wish that I could use the AA generated Hotkeys and not have to worry about this.

    Regarding the pet AAs, I meant they are both the same sort of AA (pet swarm) with the same recast time (10min) meaning you generally want to cast them together. There is rarely a time when you want to use one and not the other. So it gets annoying when you are between 101'-150' from your target and one of these AAs fires but the other doesn't. Again, this thread is for the most trivial of complaints since there are enough complaint threads about game crippling lag and the sort of big complaints people have. This one right here is the top of the trivial pile!
  6. Knifen Journeyman

    1. Regardless of rank I - III Rogues whisper step only uses Rk. I and you have to be invisible for a moment before using.

    2. Shared SoS should either last longer, or have a quicker reuse timer
  7. Vumad Augur

    That ENCs just got a decent upgrade to our gravity line, which is only our second ever AE DPS spell, and it still has a stupid knockback / lift so we can't even use it. I actually pushed the Avatar of War up over the wall during the raid. Getting an AE that we can't use because of a mechanic that has no purpose but to undermine the AE is beyond frustrating.
  8. minimind The Village Idiot

    Berserker (feel free to add)
    • Ritual Scarification- Takes us down to 89% HP and locks us there so we can use our abilities that require us to be under 90% HP (which I like!). RS will also, however, limit you to a flat HP value if you have too many buffed HP.
      • Rank 1: 89% or 324,000 HP, whichever is lower. (Max: 364,044 HP)
      • Rank 2: 89% or 340,000 HP, whichever is lower. (Max: 382,022 HP)
      • Rank 3: 89% or 357,000 HP, whichever is lower. (Max: 401,123 HP)
      • THUS once you hit any one of those maximums with the corresponding ability ranks, you're going to be held below 89% and any HP gains you get from gear/buff will be negated.
    • Throwing Haste - A few years back, "bandoliers" (bags that hold only throwing items) with weight reduction were made to work just like quivers with weight reduction-- provide a ranged haste for that skill. Awesome, right? Well... unfortunately there aren't any dropped or tradeskilled items that can hold berserker axes. We zerks aren't hurting for DPS, so there's not a need to implement these, but it's not like we ever choose ranged DPS if we don't have to, so it wouldn't hurt to throw something in. I just want "Lilbraen's Big Axe Bandolier" to be a thing...
    • Berserker Ability/Disc Names - For those of us who have been playing 10+ years, knowing which disc belongs to which line or pedigree of abilities is innate. However, my regular group has an alt-night every two weeks and I play a shaman while another person plays a zerk. Only when trying to explain the disciplines and combat abilities did I really understand how confusing the names are. There are so many "frenzy" and "rage" abilities that are on different timers and don't do related things. If I had my way, I'd rename some of these.
    FubarEQ likes this.
  9. Szilent Augur

    ranking up that AA reduces the reuse timer from 30s to 25 & then 20s.
  10. Szilent Augur

    also active mana restores. Bard resource depletion has become governing on my pace of play over an evening.
    Elyssanda likes this.
  11. Cadman Elder

    The Melee dps powersource also sports endurance regen, something none of the others do.

    If you're an endurance hungry class that can't keep up by using Breather, the tank powersource isn't really an option.
    Wulfhere and minimind like this.
  12. Tour Augur

    -Splash line of heals is clunky and cumbersome for a role that by its nature is based on timing and reaction. Yes, there is an imperfect work around to "key up" the targeting circle but the last thing you want when healing are any extra steps to slow you down even just a bit. Would like to replace* with a PB AoE or targeted AoE version with same heal amount / mana cost / cooldown / heal radius etc.

    *or add new line with a shared timer if retiring a spell line is issue, as some I'm sure may like the splash version
    Tallie, Raccoo and Skuz like this.
  13. Lisard Augur

    1.Zan Fi's Whistle not having a 100% uptime like they were going to do in ToV (but then forgot?!?!)
    2.having my Stun AA ability (stunning kick) removed and applied to a Special Attack (round kick) thats not worth using over Flying Kick
    3.Being denied improvements / new and innovative abilities because my class has Mend and FD, even tho every class has access to FD and Far superior Self heals.
    4. Requiring a Bard, Berserker, Beastlord, Shaman, Ranger to maximize my DPS performance in a raid group. AKA not being self sufficient and requiring 6+ other classes to be worse DPS then everyone else besides a wizard
    5. the ridiculously long reuse and different refreshes on my Disciplines and AA abilities which makes it all out of wack in pairings because the timers dont line up like most other classes.
    Aegir likes this.
  14. Cicelee Augur


    1. While I cannot speak for every magician, the majority of magicians I speak to primarily use water pet on raids for the DPS, and either water or earth in the solo/group game. Air and fire are rarely used, and are inferior to water (from a DPS perspective) or earth (from a tanking perspective). It would be nice to have some more situations where air and fire would be used. Speaking of usage...

    2. Magic DD spells are completely inferior to fire DD spells. The only time they are ever used is on 100% fire resistant mobs, and those types of mobs are rare to say the least. It would be nice to have some situational uses for these types of spells, so that...

    3. Elemental Union, which used to be one of the key DPS AA that magicians would use, now only works on magic spells. Which means that it generally does not get used by magicians. Which is a shame that something that was a staple for magician burns now never gets used. Speaking of never gets used, just like...

    4. Many spells for magicians are rarely, if ever, casted. From short term damage shields to fast casting (yet low damage) fire DD spells, there is probably at least 25% of spells that magicians simply do not use in pretty much any situation. It would be nice, again, to have some situations to use these spells in, just like it would be nice to have some situations where magicians would use....

    5. One handed weapons and shields, which have almost gone the way of the dodo. The overwhelming majority of magicians nowadays use 2hb for its superior DPS. When you get pigeon holed into only using one type of weapon, it makes you wonder why even bother with making one handed weapons. Maybe if there was a reason to use one handed weapons and shields, then it would at least give magicians options.

    Now, I know a few magicians use air and fire pets. A few use magic DD spells, and Elemental Union. And I am sure a few use every spell in their spell book, just like I am sure a couple are still rocking the one hand/shield combo. However for the majority, there is a "best" way and magicians gravitate towards what is "best". It would be nice to have options, have situations, where we can utilize all of our spells and pets and AA and such instead of just becoming cookie cutter.
  15. Cicelee Augur

    I would also add that monks seem to use only 2hb weapons nowadays. It would be nice to have scenarios and situations where dual wield was also a viable way for the class.
    Fenthen likes this.
  16. Zandez Lorekeeper

    1) Mana Mana Mana Mana Mana Mana Mana.....oh did I mention Mana? Greatly increase regen rate, or some AA to recover mana.
    2) Either an upgrade to Pureshot discipline or reduce timer
  17. Mookus Augur

    The little things... I can go on about a lot of big things...

    1- no pbae cold or magic since lvl 90?! Wtf

    2- fire beam, why does this entirely underpowered crap need to cause 13 seconds of blindness?

    3- cloudburst nuke, love how rooting us for 12 seconds is considered appropriate for this mediocre dps.

    4- can’t port group to secondary bind still? Pretend I’m a boxer group with unlimited campfire restrictions pls hypocrite devs.
    FubarEQ likes this.
  18. Elyssanda Bardbrain

    bard chewing through my endurance.. Mana is a close second now, but endurance still beats it by 10% or so.. sometimes we get in a rhythm pulling and fighting and all of a sudden I'm having to sit out a fight or two because oom/ooe.
    Jeraldo Rivera likes this.
  19. kizant Augur

    You know it works on your magic rain and beam spells right?

    For Wizards.

    1. For encounters with lots of adds at once I need to load 7 AEs in addition to my normal spells to do optimal damage and I'll still lose to people who push 1 button.

    2. Half my DPS comes from procs which lag the server like crazy.

    3. The Dicho line (which had a lot of potential) is now included in the completely useless spell list since Composite doesn't scale well enough to be even half relevant like Dissident managed to be.

    4. Our pillar line is all on the same timer which killed quad kiting.

    5. We have this great ability called Mana Burn which uses 80k mana all at once and has a 30 minute lockout. It's supposed to be some big impressive thing.. Even though it does less damage than a number of classes standard attacks during a burn.
    menown, FubarEQ, Barton and 1 other person like this.
  20. FranktheBank Augur

    No hit block like SKs.
    Self only epic 2.0 vs SK group 2.0
    Stun/Crush isnt instant like SK terrors
    Heal-through cast time.
    Barton and Fenthen like this.

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