Warr vs. Pal. vs SK

Your opinion is not backed up by any facts. You have them: the state of the class before stances were introduced. Guilds were still recruiting lots of warriors to MT raid bosses. You're wrong.

Your opinion is not backed up by any facts

Knights are getting the def stance plus the 5% innate mitigation, and that absolutely is a fact. They are keeping all their previous class defining knight abilities, that is absolutely a fact. If you would like to pretend these aren't facts that makes no difference to me. Lucky for me i can just buy a heroic palidin, take a week or two leveling it up, and again compete on a level playing field. Absolute worst i could do would be having almost the same AC/HP and permanent 35% avoidance, while i toy around with learning to time splashes, heals, stuns and etc. I'm sure it would be fun, and no matter what button i do or don't press i will have that 35% going for me at all times. I'm not saying any guilds are going to boot warriors, or that groups of friends won't still invite their warrior friends. For me personally, I don't see a reason to play a substantially lesser tank class if I have my choice of which to play. I'll take the nearly same ac/hp 35% and a spell book over warrior with just the 35%. I'd say Thancra if you want to stay with Warrior, more power to you, but before I even looked I assumed you were a Knight, saying that there is nothing wrong with this change, and of course that is the case. Don't tell me developers tested this all out, and after all their calculus and real raid testing it came that both SK and palidin needed exactly a 35% bump from where they were to make things even. This is a half way thought through, thrown together at the last minute, attempt to fix or unbreak or re-fix some long standing issue they can never sort out.

Warriors need to seriously find some utility, your the most vanilla class in the game. Maybe a 5% melee bonus in your aura, AC bonus, 5% change to break charm/mez early when in your aura something.... Dig your a smart bunch because the great Warriors know how an event unfolds and the mechanics used resulting in the defensives you use and why. There has to be several quality options out there for you all to grab and take. Warriors should inspire those around them to be great in combat.

Warriors were not made to be the utility tank that does a little of everything. They were made to only tank and be the best at it. Trying to concede that we won't be the best at tanking, but we will add adps or some other utility function really changes what warrior was. Its really just saying, ok since knights are going to be equal to warrior in tanking, warrior can have a spell book, but instead of spell book we will make up some lore which makes it sound warrior related and still give them misc utility abilites. Warrior is not the third kind of knight, with some mish mash of absurd random abilities given as a compensation for loosing their primary tank role.

I explained to you why you're wrong, that's the only opinion from me on this thread.
You should check your AAs and discs on your warrior, it's obvious from your wall of text you did not know you had those abilities to help you out in the game.

The fact you offer, unless I'm missing something, is that before warriors got stances, guilds were recruiting warriors. I'm not saying warriors don't have secondary abilities past just Last Stand, I'm saying that palidins and sk's also have many secondary abilities. I see them thank fairly well using those abilities with out having warrior defensive stance, how do you think they will do with every thing they had to do fairly well before PLUS stances. I feel like I must not be seeing a whole post from you, if you feel you explained how that is wrong. Other posts break down the secondary abilities, the gear comparisons and etc, its kind of past arguing whether or not knights will tank as well as warriors, they will. Apparently that is intentional, and so be it. So all that leaves is, well lets find some way to give warriors more utility then, bout the only route left to go. If warriors wanted all that utility, they would probably have picked a palidin or sk in the first place. It's easy enough to reroll, and I'm certain that's what DBG would tell people to do if they are unhappy with it.

No they won't unless they're not using all the activated abilities / discs at their disposal, if that's the case, see my previous post. They were not tanking better before stances were given to warriors, certainly not in the raid game. If you're referring to the fact that the knight defensives could stack with DP, it's actually not the case. If you're one of the adept of the "spell book superiority" while the spells are more powerfull, interrupts are a real things when you're tanking, discs are superior in making sure things land.

The knight 20 and 35% vie discs will stack with DP.

wouldn't the easiest way to get more warriors into the game being if you choose to go a warrior you can have a free heroic character but just for that class surly that would help bring more Warriors back to the game.

instead of bringing SK's and paladins up to a warriors tanking standards which just makes people wanting to create more SK's and Paladins making the Warrior crisis even worse.

Boss tanking is the one raid role with an absolute monopoly... Warriors tank bosses, period. Multiple classes can cope with virtually any other role. A move to reduce this monopoly is a move in a good direction, in my opinion. I don't know if these answers are the right answers. We'll see.

Piestro was a PR rep with a similar job to Roshen. The thing that made Piestro so amazing was that he was actually played the game. He was a hardcore raider and had a very good understanding of how the game worked so he could explain things to the dev team from a players point of view. He probably had a better understanding of the game than anyone there is because he knew it from a players point of view and also had inside dev information.

I don't think anyone currently on the dev team with the possible exception of Dzarn actually plays the game and it seems like a lot of them do not have a good understanding of the players point of view.

We lost a lot when we lost Piestro.

For all those tanks - consider dps classes when you say (why would anyone pick my class over x class). All non wizard/rogues still get groups.
The sky still isn't falling

According to this post https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/test-update-02-10-16.230657/page-15 they don't but I didn't test it myself. I did not see anyone that tested that they do stack, it seems someone tested that they don't though so I'll assume it's how it works.

They stack because DP is a mitigation and effects the DI portion. Our 20 and 35% discs are vie (absorption) based same as cleric shinning line and effects total damage.

edit: Soj beat me to it.

A lot of guilds only had a few warriors before all this. An absolute monopoly? what raid forms with no clerics in the raid. They might have had a monopoly of MT, like cleric had a monopoly on clericing, THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE CREATED FOR. So now Knights can MT, and warrior can tank adds or dps? wtf? Anyhoo, I got my heroic palidin, hopefuly if i apply all my knowledge and skills to being the best palidin I can be, soon an old mediocre, complacent palidin will be sitting on a bench somewhere instead of in a raid.

Okay I failed to read the post I actually quoted, my bad. This is something that should hopefully be fixed though.

Why shouldn't they stack?

If they're going to keep the def stance at the same % for knights and wars, they need to undo the nerfs to the No Time to Bleed / Pain Doesn't Hurt line is there's going to be anything resembling balance for long term survivability.

They could, but they don't necessarily want to, because it was nerfed for a cause: -3000/4000 hits off of Defensive Proficiency already reducing the damage from 15,000 down to 11,000 = monsters that hit other classes for 15,000 damage hit Warriors for 7-8,000, which resulted in a 45-50% permanent damage reduction against group monsters. It made content difficult to make for both Warriors and Knights. The Warriors who were pushing for it to be kept the way it is, for example Daegun, were pretending not to understand what made damage reduction >>> heals in challenging content, all the while pushing for Warriors to require less heals than Knights doing chain heals on themselves. For them, balance = Knights have to chain cast heals just to survive, while Warriors just need to stand there and laugh.

On average, developers don't want to make always-up abilities because it'd make the game too easy out of not having to decide what ability to use, which is why Defensive Proficiency in the first place was a mistake, because now every monster gets to increase its DPS by 30% just to match, and classes other than tanks have to pay.