Warr vs. Pal. vs SK

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Mistatk, Feb 16, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dygor New Member

    This is pure opinion.

    I think maybe, whether by DBG under staffing the EQ 1 division, or lack of true character insight by new coders. Or whether they are simply consolidating the Tank classes, or just trying to get “more done with less” a common practice in today’s corporate environment. It is as they say “We are where we are”.

    So with that being said, this patch was not coding for 3 different characters, they are only writing code for one. The “Tank.” The below is merely me taking a stab at it. (This may fall on deaf ears, because I truly do not know the vision or direction of the 3 different class of tanks.)

    I suggest the following:

    Give War’s the ability to heal them self’s. As equal too, the other two tank classes as possible. I know this is a Radical Idea, but radical times. And make it, in keeping with the EQ tradition.

    First, “Through your many years of bandaging your war wounds you have mastered the ability to bind wounds while in combat.” Call it “Hemorrhagic Interruptus.” This ability will heal you for approx. 6500 to 7500 HP every sec over the next 2 minutes. With a reuse time, every 5 minutes.

    To validate this, I have seen a SK’s healing pars on a Raid Boss for self-healing of 600,000 hp over 60 sec.

    Second, could be “Never standing alone, your deity looks upon you facing sure death and bestows a great boon.” Call it “Facing Death Together.” This ability instantly restores 85,000 HP and restores 25,000 HP every 18 sec for a total of 3, in 1 min, last only 1 min. With a reuse time, every 3 mins.

    To validate this, look no further than a Paladins ability to heal.

    I know, I know, this is not in keeping with the War tradition. But if we must grow with the “Tank” class these suggestion would help equal the playing field.

    If the above is not the direction that the development team is going in, then I suggest the following:

    The War in me would just simply request:

    Add addition melee mitigation of 10% to Stout Defense on top of the AC bonus; while keeping Defensive Proficiency at the same rate of 30% melee mitigation; coupled with the Pain Doesn’t Hurt line. This would counter act both the Sk’s and Paladin’s ability to use there “Mantle line or Carapace/Ardency lines” with Defensive Proficiency.

    To counter both of the Sk’s and Paladin’s ability to selfheal or Lifetap. Increase the War’s ability Warlord’s Resurgence, instant heal from 20kHP to 45kHP with 6500 health and restoring 24 endurance every 6 seconds for 2 minutes and lower the refresh time to 5 mins.

    Those who would flame on this, you may now commence.

    /T

    Just a War
  2. Makavien Augur

    They should add heals to all our hate abilities if they add them at all so we are still the same class . they should add heal boosting abilities to our defensive discs much higher then either of the other classes get.

    But personally I really don't care why they think they need to balance it out But it is really fundamentally changing the game we have played for 16 years and I really have no interest in it personally
  3. Mistatk Augur

    Yeah, those are good ideas for possible additions. There is actually a lot of good ideas out there and things that could be done. What I'm not seeing is what the goal is, or where they are trying to move the finish line to. The changes always seem short sighted, and attempts at balance, but then they go and make another change that throws the first change out of whack. With out knowing what they are actually trying to do, its hard to say what additions they would possibly make to warrior abilities. Warriors were weak, so they added stances to warriors to try create a balance. Seemed ok, but apparently it wasn't, so now knights have the stances that warriors got. So, now is everything balanced, or is some class lacking or? If now they just go make all the mobs harder to account for having stronger tanks, then all the non tanks just suffer. I understand maintaining balance is difficult, they are viewing it primarily from a "on paper" view point, and people who play the game have a different experience of how things actually end up working out. If stances have been broken all this time, that was a really long time to leave it in game broken, like several years. If it wasn't broken, why did it just get fixed. Or is it now broken.
  4. Lizzarn_01 Journeyman

    Sure. Why not. I'm all for increasing the desirability of the least played classes. They are the least played for a reason. Because they are underpowered for the content. Why are mages such a popular class? Because it take no effort or money to summon a pet that is possibly more powerful than most group geared tanks. Just because a class has been underwhelming for 17 years doesn't mean it was right, or it should continue
  5. Makavien Augur

    Btw 5 minute refresh heals would be a joke . They would have to be chain cast able to do anything.
  6. Dre. Altoholic

    Ideally, yes. But somewhat sparingly: I.E. a percentage of named or trash mobs, not an entire tier.
    I don't think anyone is under that impression. The strength of the Knight is the ability to heal reactively, putting HP back into the bar when you need it. But let's not pretend Lich Sting doesn't exist.
    They could always make this into a targetable buff and give it to classes like SHM/DRU.
  7. Dre. Altoholic

    NoThankYou.

    Let's not take an erosion of class identity as reason to erode it entirely.
    Time Burner 2 likes this.
  8. Kamea Augur

    Yeah but the devs generally think heals are not lore-appropriate for wars. In the mid-2000's, the way the game was going it was wars = runes, pals = heals, SK's = taps. Then they decided wars = mitigation + useless runes, pals = heals, SK's = taps + king of runes.

    Insult line has long had a 2hit 50% vie. We got this before knights got repel line. When knights originally got this line (which again was after warriors got our 2hit rune) it was generally in line with it. Then the devs decided to dramatically buff the knight vie but not the warrior one.

    Problem is, the damage cap on insult recourse is an absolute joke (9705 on rk3), and obv the recast time is 2x that of repel and and it's for 2 hits instead of 3.

    Other funny thing is, we got our defensive rune proc disc (Armor of X Runes) before SK's got the Vizat's skin line, and yet again they gave knights a vastly superior version of the ability.

    For probably the past 5 betas I've been asking the devs to buff Armor of X Runes line, so we have something useful for the disc window. I was delighted when they gave us Last Stand with a rune proc.

    I think Dichotomic Shield is a great addition for wars, however, I'd prefer it to be less potent with a longer duration. Tanking is a length game. Regardless our Dichotomic is better than knight's.

    ====================

    My suggestions:

    1) Add a copy of Insult Recourse to Cyclone Roar line.
    1b) Buff said Recourses to match Repel
    1c) ergo Warriors essentially have Repel

    2) Dramatically buff Armor of Darkened Runes line -- at a minimum, add an AC component said this disc is always the superior choice to Stout Defense. The rune proc rate on this vs a single mob isn't super high, so I think making it a full melee block for 1 hit a la Vizat's skin is reasonable. An alternative would be making it a 25% melee vie that stacks with stances like knight discs. Plus, lower the reuse time.

    3) Actually give us a tank-useful click on our breastplates. Having a DD proc on a warrior item is an absolute joke. At a minimum, each DD proc should have a rune recourse. Given that the proc rate is tied to bash/kick timer (well, plus a few kick ripos), I think a full melee block for 1 hit a la Vizat's skin is reasonable.

    4) The damage limit on Warrior's Bulwark line is clearly out of whack and needed to be fixed. Rk3 has a limit of 105,938hp which is clearly pretty useless for an ability aimed largely at boss damage.

    ---

    Edit: FYI, I support knights getting a version of Flash of Anger.
  9. Repthor Augur

    adding heals to warriors isent gonna do anything anyway its pointless. its not just the heals/tap spells that make knight healing what it is. without corresponding focuses, heal aa, crit aas, gift of mana, bonus effects opon healing/casting stuns/terrors, innate healing healing procs that also benefits from thos aas , leech abilitys.

    we arent all of a sudden gonna be able to heal as well as knights or even in the same realm. they arent gonna make another 2k aas that are well thot out to balance our needs for healing inline with what knights can in downscaleing content (group game) And they shouldent cuz we aren not knights we never where and never should be. they just need to pull their thumb out of their rare and stop makeing dumb choices

    hell non of us could even get 2k worth of aas that mattered when a new expansion release happened. and you think u can get that by next patch give me a break
  10. Makavien Augur

    I agree with you Repthor. And Kamea they have flash of anger that uses shield block think its called shield flash.
  11. Xanathol Augur

    Just a point of fact - SKs have been able to cast a rune since the class was created, though the line was abandoned by devs. When devs introduced defensively proc'd runes and first gave them to Warriors, it ticked off a lot of SKs. SKs then getting the line was more of an acknowledgement of the screw up to not give it to SKs in the first place. Anyhow, carry on...
  12. Dre. Altoholic

    Sheex likes this.
  13. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

  14. RPoo Augur

    It's almost relevant.
    [IMG]
  15. Time Burner 2 Augur

    Group tanking belongs to knights, without any question. Raid OT pretty much belongs to knights as well. If you want to remove the warrior monopoly on raid bosses cool, then remove the knight group tanking monopoly, as well as the raid OT knight/warrior disparity. I'd really like that.
  16. sojero One hit wonder


    it is only a monopoly if the other cannot do it.
    Abazzagorath likes this.
  17. Time Burner 2 Augur

    Wa
    Warriors already have enough, and knights are OP imo.
  18. Sandy100 Elder

    Here is my take on the three classes:

    As for tanks, our guild uses both SK and Warriors. NO one cares about the SK's FD, harmtouch or drains. They do like their terror line and hate lines for aggro. The SK abilities I mentioned are great for soloing ,which makes them better soloers than any of the other tanks followed by Paladins.

    Warriors are deemed the toughest overall and make equal tanks to that of SK. I never heard anyone say, "I prefer a SK tank to that of a warrior." I have heard people say that they like playing SK over that of a warrior but that is a personal preference.
  19. Blurred_Memories Augur

    warrior = dumbest class in the game.

    go to school, or go to church... learn some spells ya freakin muggles!
  20. Cloudia Augur

    sneaks up and releases a coffee jacked ferret under Blurred's robe...


    Now while he is preoccupied

    Actually the idea of a second life type AA effect specific to warriors similar to that of the priest class that kicks in at the point of death and bumps a warrior back up to 30-35% hp/end with a fairly large regen of hp/end for 3-4 tics rather than invulnerability.
    As deaths cold hand reaches out a warrior looks deep inside and seizes that spark that allows them for just an instant to become an avatar of their diety.

    This doesn't fire every time, and has a better chance of occurring when a tank is dropping fast
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.