The state of monks causes a lot of problems for every other melee class in the game.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by WokeCat, May 24, 2021.

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  1. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    100% false

  2. WokeCat Augur

    So the Shadow Knight is going to kite the raid mob... while the Warrior is tanking it..? um? Shadow Knights are still great tanks. They can hold aggro easier than a Warrior, they can fear kite, they have feign death for pulling. They do many great things. However, in a raid Warriors and Paladins are arguably better. Again, this is called balance:

    Shadow Knights are not the best at everything.
    Paladins are not the best at everything.
    Warriors are not the best at everything.
    But all 3 have something that they are the best at — they have their niche — they are all viable and capable of tanking for a group or a raid. This is what true balance is.

    When it comes to Monks they are literally heads and shoulders above every other melee DPS class. They are the best at EVERYTHING. Not just SOME things.
    There is nothing that a Rogue can do that a Monk doesn't do significantly better with less gear. This is NOT balanced.
  3. Triconix Augur

    There's this amazing thing that happens in this game. Raid encounters become like events and mechanics start to appear such as adds spawning. SKs do this thing called offtanking the adds or kiting the adds. I know this may be very new for you in this 22 year old game that's only had this type of stuff for the last 20 years, but it's simply amazing to watch. So creative are the devs these days giving us new type of mechanics in raids.
    Skuz and wade_watts like this.
  4. wade_watts Augur

    What is surreal is that your entire narrative around class balance is that you personally feel that you can't enjoy your class because another class does more DPS or has more utility. You've started numerous posts and have dropped into every other thread possible about how rogues are under powered. Since you couldn't get traction there, you've decided to try to promote the nerfing of another class so that you can enjoy yours more.

    We are 48 hours out from launch so there are lots of people here waiting for the server to drop that simply don't want to see DPG come in and try to "balance" a class.

    Dude, just play the freaking game and play a class that you enjoy playing. If doing DPS in classic or kunark makes you happy, play a class that does good DPS in those xpacs. Ask for increased damage bonus for rogues if you want - just stop stinking up the forums with your garbage calls for nerfs because you want to play a class that gets out DPS'd by another class.

    Bring some unbiased group and raid parses showing this "insane DPS" done by monks versus other classes if you want to promote change - not this sob stories about how you don't have fun when other classes do more DPS than you.
  5. WokeCat Augur

    I love the ignore feature.
  6. WokeCat Augur

    Imagine if when WoW classic launched people discovered that Rogues were no longer viable and if you wanted to play melee DPS then you had to re-roll as a Feral Druid, and when people complained about this, they were attacked and told they shouldn’t complain because when Cataclysm comes out Rogues will get Legendary daggers and it will be balanced and it doesn’t matter if Rogues used to be Top DPS 17 years ago because you can play a Druid instead and run around doing top DPS while tanking with no weapon equipped.

    This is literally how ridiculous some of you sound.
  7. Triconix Augur

    Translation: I can't come up with credible responses so instead I'll just cancel culture it and ignore it.

    The ultimate Karen move.
    wade_watts likes this.
  8. WokeCat Augur

    Yes, because someone who has spent 4 pages lobbying personal attacks towards me rather than embracing dialogue deserves credible responses.

    Notice how you’re not ignored?
  9. Slipp New Member

    I feel like every TLP there's a nerf this class thread and it always comes the day before server launch.
  10. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    Imagine that when WoW launched, it sucked, and their implementation of the Rogue class was a joke. Now open your eyes and see that what you imagined is actually reality. That was the first sign for me that WoW was not going to kill EQ, playing a Rogue in beta and I hated the class by the time the game launched.

    Could they dial Monks back a bit? Sure
    Will they? Maybe some day, probably not now.
    Does that make Rogues pointless? No

    Just because your items don't stay on your corpse doesn't mean nobody ever needs a corpse dragged. If you want a res you need that corpse. Bad group died deep in a dungeon? Send in a Rogue, they know their invis won't drop, or that they won't have to worry about live and undead mobs in the same area.

    I played a Rogue during Kunark originally, I dragged plenty of corpses that still would have needed dragged if the gear wasn't on them. Doing a Chardok Queen raid and died? Only want a res if you manage to beat her? Doubtful. You want a res either way. Send in the Rogue!

    Should Rogue-only weapons be given a damage boost? Sure, that might simplify things early on. 9/27 SBD would be nice. Helps damage and backstab damage, doesn't affect anything else. But that's a lot of work even if it's a reasonably targeted solution.

    There are a lot of things they may do someday, solving this issue might be one of them. Not solving it now won't hurt much either. I'd play a Rogue on a TLP if I had enough play time to group exclusively, and deal with a few waits and making new friends, joining a guild, etc.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. WokeCat Augur

    The day before launch? Imagine if when Blizzard released a new expansion they were just like, “welp, it’s done. No more balance changes until the next expac in 3 years.” There is plenty of time left to make weapons meaningful again. Kunark comes out in what, 2 months? Do you really think a Monk with a T staff won’t still out DPS a significant amount of Rogues with their epics? Because I assure you that they will, all while being tankier, having more utility and no positional requirement, but guess what? That monk will be using a BIS weapon that isn’t easy to get, and the game will at least be competitive and offer more diversity.
  12. Slipp New Member

    I agree that rogues need love, but not to the point of nerfing another class. Boost classes up to par with others, not tear down one.
    wade_watts likes this.
  13. wade_watts Augur

    People get bored waiting for server launch :)
  14. WokeCat Augur

    It’s easier to bring monks down to everyone else’s level than it is to revamp every single weapon in the game to bring them up to par with monk fists. Y’all act like if monks had to use classic fists, or Kunark weapons that they wouldn’t still dominate the meters. Like if you really think a Monk using a Jade Mace would be a terrible nerf..then how do you think Rangers who have to use Lamentations feel?
  15. Slipp New Member

    So after 15 years you want nerfs? K.
  16. WokeCat Augur

    So after 20 years I came back to EverQuest to relive my nostalgia and think classes who were viable 20 years ago should still be viable? K.

    Let me guess, I can wait 2 years for it to balance itself out in the future, as thousands commit mass exodus from a TLP server already in PoP for Mischief and Thornblade because the main reason most of us are drawn to TLP in the first place is the classic experience.
  17. Triconix Augur

    No, I cannot imagine because i hate WOW. I pre-ordered it, played it the day of launch, hated it, and never looked back.

    You seem to enjoy it though. So much so that it's the only thing you seem to bring up. Why don't you just continue playing that rather than this crusade for nerfs?

    The classic experience? LOL. If you want the classic experience, this is literally the worst server to start on for that. The ruleset is completely new and completely different than anything in classic.
    Skuz and wade_watts like this.
  18. Kumiko_Lockjaw Elder

    If guilds start to distribute loot not by dkp, plat or RA, but by dmg meters... then I will play another class.
    But as long as they look at RA, dkp or gdkp, I play rogue.

    I'm a social guy and do not want to bid on a shinai with 25 others.
    Instead taking care about those rog only pokers, together with my 2 or 3 stabbing comrades.
  19. taliefer Augur

    sometimes I question if people that complain in this forum even play the game or are too busy collecting pearls to clutch to their chest to do so.
  20. WokeCat Augur

    Yeah, it's not for everyone. I didn't actually start to enjoy it until Cataclysm came out. I played EverQuest 2 more than WoW, but ultimately played WoW because it's what all of my friends played.

    I still play it. I have a level 60 Holy Paladin, Level 60 Disc Priest, and Level 60 Combat Rogue on Classic, as well as several level 60s in Shadowlands. I also have 4 level 60 characters on Project 1999. I also play Overwatch, League of Legends, Valheim, and a slew of other online games.

    I have two characters on Aradune who are both 50+, which is actually how I learned how garbage most melee classes are thanks to the state of Monks. A level 46 Rogue who spent a ton of money on Kronos to twink himself re-rolled when he saw how much damage the Monk in our group was doing.

    But educate me. Where is the best place to go for a true classic experience? On P99 Green you will level in 1 of 3 zones the entire time because of the 300% ZEM that each of these zones have.
    You will not be allowed access to most camps at max level because there is no pick zones, and most guilds have camps and raid zones locked down indefinitely, and to try and challenge this is a bannable offense.

    P99 Blue is a ghost town. You cannot even play a Rogue there because they cannot solo, and you have to solo 1-50 before players start grouping in the Hole (again for the ridiculous ZEM). End game is same as Green. Most content is not accessible to you and never will be.

    On TLP at least I can see every zone I want to, and will likely have access to most camps or at least the items that drop from them at some point — especially on Mischief.
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