The state of monks causes a lot of problems for every other melee class in the game.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by WokeCat, May 24, 2021.

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  1. WokeCat Augur

    In classic Monks are dual wielding fists that are better than a Mithril 2 handed sword. DUAL WIELDING.

    With no Haste or weapons equipped, monks in Kunark are basically dual wielding Wurmslayers.

    With epic, monk fists become 23/26.

    This doesn't just affect monks, but rather, affects every other melee class in the game.

    Want to play a Ranger? Do you really think you're going to loot a sword in Classic, Kunark, Velious etc. that can even come close to competing with this damage?

    Want to play a Rogue? Do you really think a 9/27 Shrieking Ahlspiess can compete with a 21/38 triple-attacking tank who can feign death and mend? Bards and Tanks obviously suffer as well, but ultimately bring other things to a group besides just damage.

    Even if Monks were forced to use their old "bad" fists they would still dominate the game with 14/26 fists (9/10 with Epic) and the fact that some of the best and most iconic Monk weapons in the entire game drop in Kunark and Velious.

    I would also have to imagine that this affects casters as well. It's hard to imagine anyone other than an Enchanter being able to compete with this level of mana-less damage.
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  2. Sycopata Elder

    Shine hard in early expansions, or shine progressive in each new expansions, let people decide. Everquest is not balanced game, and meta power is evolving in each expansion.
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  3. yerm Augur

    Monks kind of are a problem though. You end up with guilds having literal dozens of monks because they're so strong and always will be strong, and almost no rangers etc. This causes problems like beastlords feeling WAY back in line for weapons and/or despised by literally half the guild's dps (all monks) for taking weapons a monk gets more mileage from. The people who play monks for their utility also have to compete with the hordes of camp monks who just want cruise control dps.
    Skuz, HoodenShuklak and WokeCat like this.
  4. WokeCat Augur

    This is possibly the only game I've ever played where the player-base has a significant amount of people who are actively advocating against a balanced game that has more diversity in class representation.
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  5. Sycopata Elder

    I like balance, but is not coming, then are time to give up in no possible requests, and accept what we got, the only actual balance are in live servers/modern expansions, sems they cant balance the whole old content and no break the game.
  6. WokeCat Augur

    As a Rogue main on Warcraft, this resonates with me. I prefer when my class is balanced, or even perceived to be under-powered because the class becomes more rare and unique and when you play well, people recognize your skill level. When the class becomes over-powered, everyone starts to play it, and anything you accomplish is chalked up to you playing the most over-powered, skill-less class in the game because there are dozens of Rogues running around pressing 3 buttons and being top DPS without having any clue what most of their abilities actually do.
  7. Glowerss Augur

    Few things to note here.

    First of all, monks want a weapon in their mainhands in all eras of EQ, so the "OP ratio!!zomg!!oneone!" isn't entirely true.

    Unarmed has no damage bonus, and on MOTM stuff you *need* a weapon with dmg bonus in your MH. In classic they use WTF or Wu's fist of mastery, in Kunark they want Wu's fist of Mastery, Velious they want Gharn's or FoN ect. Really, the epic is mostly just a very strong offhand.

    Second (and this may be guild specific due to kill times or w/e) but on Aradune, in our guild monks were pretty much on par with several other DPS classes. The only place they obviously stood out was on Sky because casters can't nuke anything.

    Otherwise, in Classic on non Posky stuff and in Velious, wizards dominated pretty hard with Necros not far behind.

    Luclin was all wizards and rangers with the odd necro/rogue/SK/Monk sprinkled in.

    The main strength to monks is that they're never bad, and they have good utility elsewhere. Even if Monks and Rogues did equal damage through all eras, you'd still see far more monks than rogues just on the basis of their other utility is extremely good.

    Trying to just nerf monk DPS is a fool's errand, unless you're going to nerf monk/necro/wizard dps to bring player power levels down overall.
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  8. Belit Lorekeeper

    What an obsolete "riot" 54h prior to launch.
    Not every cool and important skill is only about some early dps. Every class has it's own attraction.
  9. wade_watts Augur

    Is the goal of this game for every class to do equal dps and have equal utility?
  10. Baldur Augur

    Monks don't get really good and start pulling away until PoP because of speed focus, and then GoD because of focused destructive and other AAs.

    If you're complaining about monk dps before then you don't know what you're talking about.

    There were a lot of rangers on Aradune. Rogues probably have something to complain about though, there weren't many of those.
  11. yerm Augur

    Casters are terrible for the entire 70 era. There are hits and misses in some expacs where wizards are kinda weak. Rangers come and go. Monks are always at or near the top. Not being #1 every single expansion is not a problem if you're always close enough and never ever bad. You can ride a monk forever. You pick wizard and you've got a year of being awful.
    Skuz likes this.
  12. Nicorus Elder

    Wizards only really dominate boss fights and then not often. They are not a great overall raid dps class because they have to med so much between boss fights.

    Monks could use a little tuning and they should change motm to reduce resists rather than increase them and see how that helps.

    Monks and melee in general do take a lot of support to deal their damage though so it isn’t entirely fair to compare them directly to casters
  13. Triconix Augur

    You have such a hard on for monk nerfs. All your posts are just the same tirade of getting monks nerfs. Step outside, get some fresh air. It will be ok.
  14. yerm Augur

    I'll stop if you stop, about kronos. I never ever want to go back to the pre-regulated rmt world that existed on servers like fippy. Hells to the no. You stop any and all disparaging or the krono trade and I agree to do the same for monks.
  15. Magician9001 Augur

    Monks are super overrated. Monks are basically never the number 1 overall DPS. Monks are often number 1 burn DPS when they have full raid buffs, but their sustained DPS for a zonewide loses to Rogue, Rangers and Zerkers in almost every expansion.
  16. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Never seen a zerker even make a parse from classic to POP.
    Jhinx, Ozon, Foaming and 5 others like this.
  17. KrakenReality Augur

    No, the goal of game's like EQ is to have encounters where different classes shine. Right now, essentially one class wins all situations and requires very little effort. Thus, every discussion is just roll a monk and life will be easier.
  18. Belit Lorekeeper

    Hehe that's a good one.
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  19. WokeCat Augur

    No. In fact, I would argue that because Monks have such amazing utility that they absolutely should deal less damage than Rogues. This is called balance. You don't see people complaining about Beast Lord. Like wow, Beast Lord must be insanely over-powered. They can heal, cast SoW, have a pet, can slow, have mana regen... and yet no one complains about them because this is all balanced with the fact that they do less damage than a lot of other classes.

    With Monk it's like oh, they can out-tank other melee DPS, are superior at pulling because of feign death, and they can mend. Saves a ton of money/DKP not having to worry about weapons. It's silly to defend this, especially when again, we're all playing on TLP because we want to experience a classic version of the game, but are unable to do so because of Monks being over-the-top ridiculous.

    If I wanted to play an expansion where Monks are less over-powered then I would go play on Mangler or even Aradune. It's pretty obvious that almost everyone actively posting on this forum is here for TLP classic. And I genuinely wouldn't have a problem with Monks being like this if it was truly classic. I never complain about Rangers or Wizards being garbage on P99 because that's actually how classic was.

    Monks being so over-the-top is just bizarre on TLP. Imagine if you played a Cleric 20 years ago, and you came back to find out that Cleric was no longer a viable healer for the first 5 expansions of the game and that if you wanted to heal you needed to play a Druid or Shaman until Planes of power launches. This is essentially what happened with Monks.
    Wtfagain likes this.
  20. wade_watts Augur

    Maybe if they made that class suck more, your personal favorite class would be better by comparison.
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