Test Update 8/11/2014

On sk i was doing terror, challenge, 2 bite aa, spear, and lifetaps when the others were down, 2 improved ae hates as well.

On the pal she was doing 100 stun, valiant deflection, hate crush, FoD, another stun and if everything else was down I was rotating ostracize, PA, and the 2 dd's

I did not use any AA to inhance agro, or decrese agro (voice or mars) or ageless or their agro pets. Anything that you would not use in a fast group. I also didn't use stream as it has a long recast.

To Seldom, the SK had rk3's and the pal had RK1 and RK2 spells and was able to keep up without issues, my wife doesn't like to raid so she only gets rots when I user her pally on raids that they need a pal on, also note she didn't have maxed FoD.

We also don't play with our mercs on burn, hate teh fact that they wont help on named fights if they are, and I always forget to change them.

I'd be curious how this would go if you used less taps and used the 96/91 terrors instead, probably be a much different picture.

It probably would, but I don't load 2 terrors, this was supposed to help us so we don't have to.

BS a paladin can easily Rotate Crush Laud Paen Glorious and another Nuke + DP and keep aggro off a wiz merc, Even after the DP nerf.

It would be favoring the SK since his wife doesn't have her AA's finished. (FOD)

Although Really with the new buffed up Voice, Touch of Falsin is as much hate as Poira was pre patch...

A wiz merc on balanced yes. Using nerfed DP, plus those nukes you listed with merc wiz on burn, no. The point is irrelevant, I thought Sojero was insinuating his wife easily held aggro on burn wizzies with nerf while using nerf dp and nukes. This is one of first things I tested so I knew could not be case. Using the mathematical best hate set a pally has, you will still be beat by an SK on a single target as things stand currently. Period.

Are you using marrs on the wiz merc if not why?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE SECRET IS OUT

THERE WILL BE RIOTS IN THE STREETS!

Sojero "insinuated" it, Ill just Say it. A paladin can hold aggro off a wiz merc on Burn with nerfed Disruptive All day, Every day. An SK can as well, a warrior too.

So maybe you need to go back and recrunch some numbers.

Infact When i tested what you say you tested, I didnt even load any pure aggro spells other then 1 Crush... Your doing something wrong.

To Shiftee, yes, in many of the test I ran, salvation was on one of the burn wizzies at all times. I have a Gina audio that reminds me when salvation needs refreshed, in the rare case I let it drop on a merc or person I desire it on. Raven- All the test I have conducted, on Paladin, SK and War are recorded. I am in process of putting all these recordings together. I feel to much conflicting info exist lately, hopefully when I upload video it will shed some light on reality of the situation in an easy to understand way. I know how much hate a merc wiz on burn with zero aa averages. I know how much hate a wiz merc on burn with max aa averages. I know the vast majority of community doesn't understand the values salvation skews it and even I found some of my test conclusions far fetched as mathematically, it did not add up correctly. Also, Sojero did not insinuate anything except that he only keeps his merc wizzies on balance. Paladins have had best single target for 12 out of 15 years. My video will illustrate we are dead last now, by LARGE margin and by how much on the aggro meter. More importantly, it will illustrate we now have no dependable AE aggro, which a tank needs to function in today's EQ. Rather we use every aa, silly old rune shield clickies from UF or not. The change in beacons hate over ride needs to be corrected NOW. Period. A new front loaded AE hate for Paladins with wider radius needs to be added to game QUICKLY. Period.

It seems to me paladin marrs salvation should get the same treatment voice of Thule did. As well as having the recast drastically cut to put on several group members.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I am not arguing we aren't dead last.

We are. But we are atleast above DPS if they are going all out and we are going all out. SK's previously were not really above DPS going full tilt.

They needed a boost. They got it and then some...

However I would question how you could not keep aggro off a wiz merc on burn that was Marred even with Disruptive, because I have been able to without much issue (And i play on Test server so have the nerfed Disruptive). < And thats Using Tarew, Laud, Paean, and Glorious + Throwing Valiants in every now and again.

Group Marrs with 72% HATE reduction

Sounds about right IMO

I'd be happy to see this for both sides. Definitely has that opposite side of the coin feel which is better for SHD/PAL as whole.

I'm against drastic changes for marrs and Im not a fan of the change to voice. Devs have stated they want aggro control to be a factor again, with tanks and DPS classes having to show restraint. I don't think having voice be so powerful and having marrs match that would be conductive. I merely want the tools for my paladin to perform his main duties at a fair and competitive level.

Yeh because Increased Utility is a bad thing. Silly me!

Devs stated they wanted aggro to aggro to mean something again. You take a war that is ahead of dps pack, then hit him with voice. Now take a group of dps classes and hit them with a group marrs. That is going the opposite direction of devs stated goal. Im all for utility that makes sense. I've got what I wanted though, mod feel free to delete my prior post in this thread

Beacon Fixed? Or more free time via Canceled Sub?

Grats on either.

I don't think empowered Marr or VoT is good for the health of hate balance.

I heard this in-game last night.

You know things are are going to go well for paladins when Shiftee starts making suggestions. Now you've given me goosebumps.