Test Update 8/11/2014

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by KevinMcP, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. Zoran Journeyman

    I don't comprehend the beacon nerf. Our AE aggro is weak any time we don't have that button to press, and that ability has significant limits with or without the override. Gutting our AE while putting SKs on a similar level as us in single target is silly.

    I concur entirely with the improvements to SK single target hate, and I can see the need for reduced hate on Divine Persecution.

    I look forward to the stun level cap changes. So often I've had to whether the "you can stun" argument regarding my tanking, but I can't actually stun 90% of anything that is dangerous to me. I'd like to see how this plays out. I expect immunity to continue to be a frustration, but it can't justifiably work on everything.
    Elricvonclief and feiddan like this.
  2. strongbus Augur

    Ok trying this for the 1st time ever so hope I do it right
    These are all with em 20 maxxed aa/mage pet gear/self/merc buffs only
    All vs the same white con spider in Argin-Hiz.
    I wanted to see the difference between rog/war pets dps and between necro war pet and merc.
    All pars a bout 7 1/2 mins long(length of 1st fight before pet died) figure I try and keep then bout the same time frame.

    Now if Someone who know how to read these can answer me one question
    I have level up a box account. Am I as a necro when it comes to mobs that have to be tanked better off just using 1 tank merc and 1 healer merc or 2 healer mercs and my pet



    1st fight
    100 healer merc on reactive healing level 97 necro war pet
    Pet died after slow faded and before I could get it reslowed.

    Walkingdeath - vs - A murkweb spider
    Attempts 620 100%
    Missed 0 0%
    Dodged 0 0%
    Parried 0 0%
    Blocked 0 0%
    Riposted 0 0%
    Absorbed 0 0%
    1846 5 0.81%
    2051 39 6.29%
    2454 23 3.71%
    2726 202 32.58%
    3062 1 0.16%
    3402 17 2.74%
    3671 2 0.32%
    4078 24 3.87%
    4279 2 0.32%
    4754 15 2.42%
    4887 2 0.32%
    5066 1 0.16%
    5430 27 4.35%
    5495 1 0.16%
    6103 3 0.48%
    6105 18 2.9%
    6712 3 0.48%
    6781 20 3.23%
    7320 2 0.32%
    7457 16 2.58%
    7929 4 0.65%
    8133 20 3.23%
    8537 1 0.16%
    8809 25 4.03%
    9145 2 0.32%
    9485 23 3.71%
    9754 1 0.16%
    10161 17 2.74%
    10837 18 2.9%
    10971 1 0.16%
    11513 16 2.58%
    11578 2 0.32%
    12186 1 0.16%
    12189 8 1.29%
    12795 4 0.65%
    12864 14 2.26%
    13540 7 1.13%
    14012 1 0.16%
    14216 8 1.29%
    14892 12 1.94%
    15568 12 1.94%

    2nd fight.

    100 merc tank with 100 merc healer on reactive
    merc healer had no issues keeping merc going after slow landed and for me to reslow it.


    Minlaten - vs - A murkweb spider
    Attempts 618 100%
    Missed 0 0%
    Dodged 0 0%
    Parried 0 0%
    Blocked 0 0%
    Riposted 0 0%
    Absorbed 0 0%
    1237 9 1.46%
    1374 2 0.32%
    1511 1 0.16%
    1572 1 0.16%
    1740 1 0.16%
    2142 4 0.65%
    2380 30 4.85%
    2408 1 0.16%
    2750 52 8.41%
    2751 125 20.23%
    2763 1 0.16%
    2895 2 0.32%
    3055 128 20.71%
    3123 8 1.29%
    3358 4 0.65%
    3412 1 0.16%
    3427 1 0.16%
    3495 7 1.13%
    3503 1 0.16%
    3580 1 0.16%
    3731 10 1.62%
    3867 10 1.62%
    3975 2 0.32%
    4112 1 0.16%
    4238 10 1.62%
    4407 15 2.43%
    4575 2 0.32%
    4610 4 0.65%
    4982 8 1.29%
    5024 1 0.16%
    5070 1 0.16%
    5083 6 0.97%
    5184 3 0.49%
    5328 1 0.16%
    5353 6 0.97%
    5725 8 1.29%
    5759 3 0.49%
    5936 1 0.16%
    6097 6 0.97%
    6399 2 0.32%
    6434 8 1.29%
    6469 10 1.62%
    6841 6 0.97%
    7008 4 0.65%
    7110 14 2.27%
    7212 9 1.46%
    7584 3 0.49%
    7616 4 0.65%
    7786 6 0.97%
    7956 7 1.13%
    8225 1 0.16%
    8327 5 0.81%
    8462 6 0.97%
    8699 2 0.32%
    8833 1 0.16%
    9071 2 0.32%
    9138 6 0.97%
    9441 2 0.32%
    9443 2 0.32%
    9814 7 1.13%
    10050 1 0.16%
    10490 7 1.13%
    11166 4 0.65%
    11267 1 0.16%
    11842 4 0.65%
    12518 3 0.49%
    13193 1 0.16%
    13869 3 0.49%
    14308 1 0.16%
    14545 5 0.81%
    15221 2 0.32%
    15897 1 0.16%

    Now during fight 2 I had my war pet in hitting the mob to get a semi idea of its dps output

    /GU A murkweb spider in 463s, 1612k @3482dps --- Walkingdeath 879k @1966dps (54.5%)

    Walkingdeath -vs- A murkweb spider: -- DMG: 878734 -- DPS: 1966 -- Scaled: 1890 -- Slash: 796696 -- DirDmg: 51013 -- Bash: 20709 -- Kick: 10316 -- Non-crit rate: 62.8% -- crit rate: 37.2% -- Attempts: 802 -- Hits: 802 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 1095 -- Max hit: 2726 -- DMG to PC: 0




    I then did a 3rd fight with the rog pet out
    Again it was 100 war merc with 100 healer merc on reactive.
    Healer merc had no issues keeping war merc up after slow faded and on this fight I had to re-slow 2 times as the 1st attempt to re-slow failed

    Minlaten - vs - A murkweb spider
    Attempts 618 100%
    Missed 0 0%
    Dodged 0 0%
    Parried 0 0%
    Blocked 0 0%
    Riposted 0 0%
    Absorbed 0 0%
    1237 9 1.46%
    1374 2 0.32%
    1511 1 0.16%
    1572 1 0.16%
    1740 1 0.16%
    2142 4 0.65%
    2380 30 4.85%
    2408 1 0.16%
    2750 52 8.41%
    2751 125 20.23%
    2763 1 0.16%
    2895 2 0.32%
    3055 128 20.71%
    3123 8 1.29%
    3358 4 0.65%
    3412 1 0.16%
    3427 1 0.16%
    3495 7 1.13%
    3503 1 0.16%
    3580 1 0.16%
    3731 10 1.62%
    3867 10 1.62%
    3975 2 0.32%
    4112 1 0.16%
    4238 10 1.62%
    4407 15 2.43%
    4575 2 0.32%
    4610 4 0.65%
    4982 8 1.29%
    5024 1 0.16%
    5070 1 0.16%
    5083 6 0.97%
    5184 3 0.49%
    5328 1 0.16%
    5353 6 0.97%
    5725 8 1.29%
    5759 3 0.49%
    5936 1 0.16%
    6097 6 0.97%
    6399 2 0.32%
    6434 8 1.29%
    6469 10 1.62%
    6841 6 0.97%
    7008 4 0.65%
    7110 14 2.27%
    7212 9 1.46%
    7584 3 0.49%
    7616 4 0.65%
    7786 6 0.97%
    7956 7 1.13%
    8225 1 0.16%
    8327 5 0.81%
    8462 6 0.97%
    8699 2 0.32%
    8833 1 0.16%
    9071 2 0.32%
    9138 6 0.97%
    9441 2 0.32%
    9443 2 0.32%
    9814 7 1.13%
    10050 1 0.16%
    10490 7 1.13%
    11166 4 0.65%
    11267 1 0.16%
    11842 4 0.65%
    12518 3 0.49%
    13193 1 0.16%
    13869 3 0.49%
    14308 1 0.16%
    14545 5 0.81%
    15221 2 0.32%
    15897 1 0.16%

    And here is what the level 100 rog pet did for damage/dps.

    /GU A murkweb spider in 465s, 1932k @4154dps --- Walkingdeath 1032k @2224dps (53.42%)

    /tell Walkingdeath Walkingdeath -vs- A murkweb spider: -- DMG: 1031899 -- DPS: 2224 -- Scaled: 2219 -- Slash: 806629 -- Backstab: 161594 -- DirDmg: 63676 -- Non-crit rate: 63.2% -- crit rate: 36.8% -- Attempts: 826 -- Hits: 826 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 1249 -- Max hit: 10376 -- DMG to PC: 0
  3. Ravengloome Augur

    disruptive is 10% of the hate it was. roughly 11500 pre nerf now 1750.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  4. strongbus Augur

    opps ment to post my pars stuff in the 8/12 stuff so reposted there.
  5. Zoran Journeyman

    That's a bit strong, but we have FoD. Our hate hasn't been nerfed any. Our DPS while trying to hold aggro has. Which I don't really get anyway.

    SKs do more damage than Paladins whether we're trying to tank or do damage, as it is. Is that not true? So why nerf our damage while tanking by forcing us to choose FoD rather than DP?

    Paladins need improvements to damage dealt, and those improvements shouldn't really be linked to our ability to hold aggro or mitigate damage, so perhaps a cleaner separation between DP and FoD will be good for us. I hope they follow this up with 2hand and slay buffs which have stagnated for some time. The developers' perception of slay inparticular seems to be completely disconnected from reality.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  6. Zantor Augur

    Great, pallies now can stun higher level mobs and SK's get a small bump to Voice of Thule, why do SK's always get further and further behind?
  7. feiddan Augur


    There's a reason every SK who knows about these changes is rejoicing.

    The "small bump" (your words; hint - look at the data) to voice and the changes to terrors have Shadowknights reigning supreme over Paladins in both single target and AE hate.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  8. Zantor Augur

    I will have to see once it goes live, but not holding my breath, if anything this will help long term aggro, SK;s need better snap aggro that isn't AE aggro. And we need our lifetap cast timers cut in half.
  9. feiddan Augur


    SK aggro is fixed. Shadowknights generate significantly more aggro than Paladins now. Shadowknights have a gigantic lead in AE aggro (Paladins just received a huge kick in the gut).

    SKs still have other issues, but aggro isn't one of them. There should be 0 times, now, that a Paladin can keep aggro off an SK.
  10. Ineptocracy Leader Elder

    How is the aggro difference if the SK buffs the Paladin with VoT as well. It is a targettable buff isnt it?
    Xeladom likes this.
  11. Bethelmanaa Journeyman

    Your target is immune to stun will still be reigning supreme.
    Elricvonclief and feiddan like this.
  12. feiddan Augur


    We didn't do any testing if both knights (or just the Paladin) had the buff up.

    In group content, it's safe to assume that Paladins will not have access to this buff the vast majority of the time.

    On raids, I'm not sure how realistic Paladins getting voice may be. I'd say that's painting an unfair picture - sure, if SKs decide to boost Paladin aggro by 72%, Paladins might (would need testing - I'd guess this is true, but I'm not certain) be superior on single-target but clearly inferior on AE and stand 0 chance picking up adds quickly.

    Voice is a "buff" insofar as Shadowknights get buffs. For the most part, it's about casting upon themselves. I remember in the old days casting it on the warriors--it was far more important in our eyes to buff aggro generation of the MT rotation than by us SKs who had plenty of hate on tap--but those days are long gone now.
  13. Torriadore Elder

    Most high-end paladins have switched from stuns to crushes. This is because nearly all content of consequence is marked stun immune these days. Stunning (some) trash mobs is a small niche for undergeared pallies, not a symbol of class power. The stun change didn't really move the meter for us.
    Elricvonclief and feiddan like this.
  14. sojero Augur


    a sk does more damage than a pally base, because of our aa procs etc. When trying a pally and sk do around the same amount of damage, but both bleed mana fast. Whoever is tanking usually will pull ahead because of reposts. If I am using my 1h + shield and casting 2 lifetaps + 3 dots and my wife is 2h + paeon and laudation + dp + ostracize + dps crush we are coming in around the same dps. With the change she wont be pulling so much agro, so we both see this as a blessing. When she is tanking her dps is a little bit less than my sk with his 2h because I can stack more and she has to use stuns and valiant deflection which lowers her dps a bit. Before the change on my sk I had to concentrate on agro more than dps, now I can do my normal and not go full agro to keep ahead of her. We usually ran with 3 wiz mercs on balanced and my cleric.
  15. Uxtalzon Augur

    Ssshhh! You're supposed to just get angry and post blind rage responses! :3
    That's a "slight" adjustment, a 85% reduction. Thanks for the numbers. Guess I can just keep Crush of Iceclad loaded. Seems like they're trying to separate DPS from aggro, much like pet tanking vs. DPS. Problem is, Paladins and DPS are like water and oil. Looks like until next expansion rolls out, the name of the game is EverAdapt.
    feiddan likes this.
  16. Bethelmanaa Journeyman

    I really wish they would bump us up a little bit in the DPS meter. It will never happen but we can all dream.
  17. Ravengloome Augur

    I did test voiced pally vs voiced sk... If the sk even tries, aggro is theirs. Its the polar opposite of how it was pre patch. There needs to be a middle ground. Also SKs using gift of the quick spear/terrors and taps can now peel aggro off warriors.

    example 1: just from the new voice buff hates attraction gained 9000 hate.

    New poira + voice gained 3400 hate
    lifetaps now give more hate then pre patch terrors, by such a margin you could get away without memming a single terror.

    New beam hate got almost doubled in base value + the 50% gain to voice... Its huuuuge aggro.

    yeh therez no problem
  18. Zoran Journeyman

    Sounds like an overreaction. I'm not sure why we need such significant swings in hate output.
  19. Xeladom Augur

    T'vyl's Resolve was changed on test for a spelling correction. Is there any way we can get this debuff moved to another slot or have it block Shadewalkers Synergy for the 2 tics that its up? Shadewalkers refresh is very fast(30 seconds unmod) and only affects flying kick so it shouldn't cause to much of a problem.
  20. Riou Augur


    It will cause a problem in destroying Monk DPS :p

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