Sunk Cost Fallacy

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by TLP Addict, May 11, 2023.

  1. TLP Addict Augur

    The sunk cost fallacy is a logical fallacy that entails sticking with a losing or failed venture because you’ve already invested a significant amount of time, money, or other resources that you can’t get back. It hinges on the idea that because you’ve already incurred costs, you need to stick with the endeavor in order to “get your money’s worth.”

    If you’re familiar with the phrase “cut your losses,” that’s a call to avoid getting trapped by the sunk cost fallacy.

    Daybreak, cut your losses, FTE is a mess and nobody wants it.
    DEEB0, Balm, Joules_Bianchi and 24 others like this.
  2. xxar Augur

    I and a few other people want it , please do not try and speak for other people.

    If the changes to FTE are polished after a few patches then it will be worth it at the end of the day.
    Ulrin, Fallfyres and minimind like this.
  3. Moforyguy12345 Augur

    A few patches? Did you play Mischief? Mischief took more than a few patches and it was NOTHING like what they are doing in this TLP. This FTE mechanic is changing so many things in no way is it close to being ready. They have a formula that is guaranteed money maker. There is no way they DON'T know that this FTE is in a horrible state. Literally cutting losses is their only way to make money this year. After what everyone is seeing in the test server, no way it'll be ready in 2 weeks.
    Hobitses, sadre, Lynada and 4 others like this.
  4. xxar Augur

    No one ever said it will be ready in 2 weeks, the server will more then likely be launched and continued development will happen regardless. As for revenue , please do not pretend you have even a remote idea of the state of the finances. If you do not want to play on a FTE server , simply pick a different server available.
    Fallfyres and minimind like this.
  5. Aerodru Apprentice

    I am so tired of this argument. "If you don't like it, don't play on it."

    Spoiler alert: A lot of us will not be playing on Oakwynd. But that doesn't mean we can't voice our concerns about a broken mechanic that could very well make its way onto other servers eventually. This is a huge change to the core mechanics of Everquest, and many of us don't want a system like this implemented at all. We are using the tools at our disposal -- Discord, Forums, Reddit -- to voice our concerns. Folks having an issue with FTE being introduced and choosing not to play on Oakwynd aren't mutually exclusive.

    And to be fair, a lot of our initial concerns turned out to be pretty spot on, given what we've seen on the Test environment.

    Let's follow the line of your argument's logic. How about this -- if you want to play Everquest in a system that caters to FTE, why not jump onto P99 or some other emulated server that has those rules implemented already?
  6. Doze Augur

    The keyword here being "few" ...

    No, it won't ... because even if they somehow manage to get FTE working as outlined in the dev FAQ (before the server is entirely dead) then all the very real problematic consequences of the "working as intended" mechanics - that multiple people have pointed out in the 150+ pages long Oakwynd Feedback - will still remain.
    Koshk, Hobitses, ForumBoss and 6 others like this.
  7. xxar Augur

    That is the entire point in testing , to fix those very real problematic issues.
  8. xxar Augur

    I think more people are interested in the server then you realize or want to admit.

    Yes, this is a huge change to the core mechanics of everquest and that is the entire point.

    The game is broken , easily exploited in it's current state and I am sorry , you don't want to see a system like this being added , hence why. . I said if you do not like the FTE system , simply do not play it. I understand you are concerned about live or it becoming a part of "live". The reality is , IF that is going to happen , I expect it to be ironed out and debugged before it even get's to that level of implementation.

    The reality is we all expected it to be a hot mess , the only difference is I want them to finish fixing the hot mess and finalize the change (in a quality state) in comparison you want them to shelf the idea.

    That is the entire difference of are view points.

    As for p99 there is no FTE system and why ? I have no intention to play a 3rd party game that has even more exploits available then current EQ here.
  9. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    The problem is they left it so late to put FTE on test there is no way all the bugs will be ironed out before Oakwynd launches in 13 days. Players have found issues with so much in the group environment, thats before they start on any raid issues it causes. FTE has broken just about every other combat mechanic there is. They need to cut their losses and announce that Oakwynd is launching on 24th without FTE.

    They can continue to work on it for a future server if they wish, but it needs months of work not days. Depends on how much face they want to save and how much time they can allocate to getting it working.
  10. Aerodru Apprentice

    Two things:

    1. If there are more people who want this system, why aren't they voicing their opinions in support of FTE?

    2. The game really isn't that exploitable in its current state. In what ways is the game currently broken and exploitable, and how is FTE going to fix that?
  11. Koniku Elder

    Bobbybick and Ruhi like this.
  12. xxar Augur

    The reality is no has a clue how long it will take to fix , for all we know it might have all majority of issues resolved and waiting to be implemented.

    I doubt it, but I think there going to continue on fixing them. I don't think there is a need to cut losses , what loss from there perspective ?

    There going to keep hacking away on it , til it's implementable.

    As for launch , I say if anything just delay the TLE.
  13. Aerodru Apprentice

    I'm genuinely curious -- what's exploitable and broken in the game?
    Familycat23 likes this.
  14. Nazurath Journeyman

    FTE supporter here and an 18 boxer which means FTE will make lvling a lot harder for me. Crossing my fingers that EQ devs have some decent coders to fix it before launch..
  15. Koniku Elder

    • Cheating and Sanctions – topics about these issues will not be permitted on our public forum or chat channels. This includes all chat about cheaters, cheating, and cheat programs as well as any topics about sanctions to an account. Sanctions include warnings, suspensions, timeouts, and permanent bans. If you wish to report cheating, please contact Customer Service, or privately contact the community team.
  16. Aerodru Apprentice

    Lulz. So... you can't think of anything off the top of your head, so you just paste a wall of text. Got it. Great argument.
    Koshk, Olestra and Familycat23 like this.
  17. Aerodru Apprentice

    You plan to 18 box on a Truebox server?

    Did you just say the quiet part out loud?
    Koshk and HealBigBoy like this.
  18. Critt Augur

    It's cute that you think a change to the core element of the game that affects every aspect of PVE will be fixed in a few patches...From a software developer standpoint it is highly unlikely that they will ever be able to get it to work as adverised and more likely that the fixes will continue to cause ripple effects in other core aspects of the game.. Regardless you are talking months of development time, I seriously doubt they can get FTE working as advertised before it becomes a moot point on Oakwynd...
    Koshk, Hobitses, Jontrann and 5 others like this.
  19. pipedreams3 Journeyman

    Players here feel that FTE will be launched in its current form and Oakwynd will be used as a beta environment. The post made here by OP is about cutting losses, releasing Oakwynd without FTE. It doesn't mean FTE progress can't continue in the background but beta testing a 24 year old game isn't exactly appetizing to many. It doesn't mean that you can't support FTE. Go ahead.

    The discussion on whether it can be fixed in time nobody knows, but given the amount of bugs that have occurred in the past while attempting to fix even lesser mechanics has given the community a good ability to predict what might happen, just as they have thus far. Look at the fiasco that was changing magic item properties, the gamma issue, the plat dupes in mischief, and aaaaal of the other basic mechanics that players have known about for ages that devs have shown to realize just now. These took months or years to even acknowledge. Willl other mobs CH me if I get charmed by a mob? Will i (as a mob, be FTE locked and thus protected when charm wears off?) How will all of this affect PVP? what about out of group heals? Quest mob interactions? There's so many dynamics here and each of them are going to require different resolutions and each of those resolutions is going to open up avenues for individual exploits. Player invulnerability, spawning multiples of one named, charmes that don't unlock, mob invulnerability, quests that cant be completed, and mobs that can't be pulled are all things on the table. We've only tested one day and we've found so many issues that the game literally can't be played in its current state.

    Support FTE, power to you. I can relate to the desire of being the the underdog just to say "i told you so" when a thousand people told you otherwise, but get your head out of the box and look at the data. It doesn't look good.

    True or not, FTE in its current state is unplayable and if it launches like this, the launch will be poorly received. A successful launch is hugely important to the health of a server.
  20. xxar Augur

    There is not set time limit , if there unable to fix the code before the expected server launch I suggest delaying the TLE and continue with development on the test server.
    pipedreams3 likes this.