Stat Consolidation and You: May 2016 Patch Preview

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Roshen, May 6, 2016.

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  1. Roshen Brand Manager

    Greetings, people of Norrath!

    On (or around) Wednesday, May 18, 2016, we’ll be rolling out our next update. In this update, we’ll be changing what is commonly referred to as “mod2s” on items. We know that changing how item stats display may seem like a big change. This won’t impact you in a negative way, and we wanted to start a conversation about this before it happens so you know what to expect.

    In the May update, we’re changing some stats from being separate entries on your character window to being properties of heroic stats. In their current form, the following mods are ones that most characters have easily capped since The Buried Sea (our 2007 expansion):
    • Accuracy
    • Avoidance
    • Combat Effects
    • Damage Shield
    • Damage Shield Mitigation
    • DoT Shielding
    • Shielding
    • Spell Shielding
    • Strikethrough
    • Stun Resist
    Having these stats visible on current items serves no real purpose, and ends up adding clutter and complexity to the game that doesn’t need to be there. Our goal with these changes is to reduce clutter on items and on your inspect window, in order to make it easier for you to better understand items at a glance.

    For example:


    Since these effects will become part of the heroic stats you already have on your armor, we're removing their individual displays from the item inspection window. You will still see how much of each modifier you have on the stats tab of your inventory window, with new tooltips that tell you when you reach the next point.

    Here is the before and after of the stat page of an unbuffed warrior with a full set of (un-augmented) gear from The Broken Mirror, to give you a better idea of how these changes will display in game:


    As you can see, with modern Heroic Stat levels, you will remain at or above the cap in all 10 categories.

    For EVEN MORE information this update to item stats, see the post here.

    … And That’s Not All In This Patch

    The team is working on other improvements for the May update, as well as more updates for later this year. Here’s a preview of some of the things to come.


    We're continuing work on consolidating DoT lines. Rangers are definitely scheduled to get updated, and some Shaman DoT lines might make it in as well. Enchanters are probably getting tweaked in terms of the amount of mana that returns to them from the Mind Shatter line. We liked increasing the amount of mana drained as a proportion of damage done, but we believe the efficiency of mana return at this point is too high.

    Behind the Scenes

    We're continuing our work on the game's underlying systems to improve server stability. The test server should be converting to this new system next week, and when we're completely happy with the results, we'll begin the process of rolling these improvements out to live servers.

    All of this is in addition to our normal bug fixes and game tweaks. This patch is scheduled to go out to players on (or around) Wednesday, May 18, and you'll see most of the upcoming fixes when they go to the test server. We have this scheduled to go to test server on Monday, May 9.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  2. Roshen Brand Manager

    Break It Down For Me

    If you have 35 or more heroic Strength, you will now have 35 Damage Shield and 25 Damage Shield Mitigation.
    If you have 35 or more heroic Stamina, you will now have 35 Shielding and Stun Resistance.
    If you have 35 or more heroic Agility, you will now have 100 Avoidance and 35 Strikethrough.
    If you have 37 or more heroic Dexterity, you will now have 150 Accuracy and 100 Combat Effects.
    If the higher value of your heroic Intelligence or Wisdom is 35 or more, you will now have 35 DoT Shielding and 35 Spell Shielding.

    Why Would You Do This?

    Our goal is to remove unnecessary complexity from the game. Once players are in the Buried Sea items, almost everyone will have all of the mods we’ve mentioned above at their caps. This makes these modifiers largely ignorable, but they show up on every item in roughly irrelevant numbers. Removing those 10 line items from the item inspection window will clean that window up, hopefully allowing it to be easier to compare items more quickly.

    Attaching these modifiers to the heroic stat system helps flesh that system out a little more, and extend the caps on the older mod2 system. For example, as your heroic stats pass thresholds (set every 400 points), your characters can continue to grow in power, instead of hitting caps. For example, at 401 hSTA, you now have 36 Shielding and Stun Shielding.

    In addition, this is a small performance increase on the server side. We're using less memory to store those ten stats. While that's not a lot on an individual item, it adds up when you consider that small amount is saved across every item we currently have in the game. Will you notice an improvement from this one change? Probably not, but it's still movement in the right direction.

    Opportunities For Even Further Progression

    We're taking this opportunity to use large values of Heroic Stats to extend the caps on mod2s. If you have more than 400 of any Heroic Stats, that stat's modifiers will now go above the current caps as shown here:

    The mod gains are spread out evenly between 400 and 4000, setting up a deeper progression for heroic stats beyond their current abilities. Everyone should be able to reach the current baseline, but still have some goals to work towards. We're planning for these new caps to be unreachable for quite some time, and this gives us opportunities to do more interesting things with itemization in the future.

    On Details and Devils

    As some of you are probably thinking, there were a lot of items that either came out after mod2 effects were added or before heroic stats were consistently high enough to replicate those values. You're correct, and we're converting those mod values to heroic stats. This means that many items that existed before heroic stats were introduced are going to get them retroactively.

    This became a little bit of a balance problem due to the fact that each heroic stat is now responsible for two mod values, so a pure 1:1 conversion would essentially be doubling all mods. On the other hand, if we simply cut everything in half, it would become impossible to hit the mod caps in some gear eras.

    We've decided on the following formula: the first three points of any mod2 with a 35% cap are counted 1:1. Any values higher than that are counted as half a point of heroics, rounding up. While this will collapse the advantage of some outlier pieces of gear, it should ensure that good items remain good and low-stat items won't lose their value.

    For Accuracy, Avoidance, and Combat Effects, the math is similar. Accuracy translates to 4 points per heroic Dexterity, so the first 12 points of Accuracy will translate into three points of heroic Dexterity. After that, every 8 points (rounded up) will count as one point of heroic Dexterity on the item.

    Avoidance and Combat Effects translate to 3 points per heroic Agility or heroic Dexterity, respectively, so the first 9 points of either stat will translate to 3 points of their associated heroic stat. After that, every 6 points (rounded up) will count as one more point of the heroic stat on that item.

    Our goal here is to make sure everyone gets roughly the same amount of mods, with the additional benefits of heroic stats. While this will shake up item values a bit in the mid-game era, overall everyone should come out a little bit stronger. Here is an example using a level 65 warrior:


    You can see there are gains in HP, Endurance, AC, and HP regen. As for mods, everything increases except for Damage Shielding (1 point less) and Strike Through (4 points less).

    We've also set up tooltips to show you the new formulas before the caps:



    And after you reach the caps:



    While we’re excited for these changes, what do YOU think?
  3. malicious rexx New Member

    Hmm, could be interesting. If nothing else, at least i am happy for the cleaner/smaller item windows. Thanks guys
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  4. Bandok Augur

    Is this just a change on modern equipment? If not, how is this going to impact progression servers?
  5. RPoo Augur

    My mind is blown. Is Hcha still useless? I see nothing about what Hcha increases.
  6. segap Augur

    You mean stats that most had easily capped from TBS to TDS, but got completely broken with TBM group gear? I'll assume this is an accidental fix to group gear and take it.

    With heroics now giving bonuses, how much will this widen the chasm between group and raid gear for stats that used to be commonly capped?
  7. KaoK Lorekeeper

    I think you answered your own question.

    I hope you all are going to fix stacking of this DOT line while you're 're-tweaking' it. Currently, only one Enchanter at a time can maintain this DOT on a mob and if a different Enchanter casts it, it just overwrites (with no indication to the original caster either - this is in bug report threads). I doubt this was intended.

    I think most people would agree a 9% mana return on a 600k critical DOT tic was beyond overboard. Hopefully, the team carefully considers the new numbers and mana returns since the spell has basically been meaningful extra self-mana regen for a year and 1/2 prior to our DOT re-vamps.

    Stat changes actually seem nice. Will take some time to adjust but less clutter = better. I wonder if this will fix most of the problems with low mod2s on scaling items from TBM?

    PS. Although we all knew it was going to happen, regardless, thank you for actually putting it out in the open you're tweaking/nerfing/fixing Mind Storm. For once that is some transparency that is appreciated.
  8. RPoo Augur

    I can deal with a smaller % mana return as long as different chanters can stack the mind squall line on the same mobs.
  9. KaoK Lorekeeper

    Indeed. It's really unfair because it completely skews any Enchanter DPS parse (for whoever is the lucky designated MS caster). I'm hoping just the mana is being adjusted and not the damage though. It was actually nice having a reason to load DOTs again (and no, not for the mana regen).
    RPoo likes this.
  10. segap Augur

    It's likely it will fix the undercapping issues on the impacted mod2s for scaling group gear. It's a good start as it will be easier to decide on trading off between AC, HP or Mana/Endurance versus having to make some outlandish choices to maintain critical mod2 caps. It won't fix issues with attack, spell damage and healing amount that many classes take significant losses on. Nor address many of the other wacky issues.
    KaoK likes this.
  11. KaoK Lorekeeper

    Sounds like a good role for hCHA!!!
    RPoo likes this.
  12. Sphynx_CT_SR Elder

    As a warrior, I have next to 0 interest in hWis and hInt and a lot of the warrior only gear specifically has none of these stats because they provide nothing for my class. But with these changes, I am going to be hurt in regards to spell and dot shielding because I am a pure melee.
  13. Lobot Omy New Member


    4000 Hcharisma = 50 pp kronos?

    Sweet Georgia Brown!
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  14. Dre. Altoholic

    Might want to read the second post "details and devils" section. Looks like items with the old mods will have appropriate hstat required to hit the old caps for those mods.
  15. Roshen Brand Manager

    Items and character stat pages will be updated on all servers. This won't impact progression servers until you're looking at items that have the ten stats mentioned in the original post.

    Overall, everyone should come out stronger from this update. For example, see this part of the post:


    Here's one specific item to give you a closer look how a Gates of Discord era item would look.


    The "mod2s" have bee removed up the updated itemization, and rolled into heroic stats for this item.
  16. Roshen Brand Manager

    I appreciate the kind words! While I know that no one likes feeling like they're getting "nerfed," it's one of our goals to improve our communication so players know what is coming up, and why changes are happening.
  17. Greyvvolf Lorekeeper

    Only out of shear curiosity and entertainment purposes, would this include our standard magic dot line, our reflective DS on Target's Target magic dots, and *gasp* our Immolate fire based dot line?

    Lolz, more reasons for Necro's to complain about lack of spell slots on raid mobs. When are you going to fix theirs so we don't have to deal with the constant and numerous cries and complaints?
    Sindaiann likes this.
  18. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    I'm really excited to see new importance in old stats, it will be interesting to see how things turn out.

    Personally I'm wondering about a few things:
    1. Are the 400 Heroic gains the same for each mod2?
    - If I get 401 HAGI, do I gain only 1 Avoidance?
    - If I get 401 HDEX, do I gain only 1 Combat Effects and 1 Accuracy?
    2. Does increasing mod2's cap make a significant difference?
    Shielding does not seem to be as big an impact as I thought. I tested 35 and 33 shielding VS a lvl 150 Combat Dummy:


    The average hit changes by about 0.7% between the two (assuming equal hits of every DI). This would be for gaining 800 HSTA.

    For Item Avoidance, if I have 865 AGI, 800 HAGI, 405 Defense, 100 Item Avoidance, this is my Avoidance AC:

    For the above example, my total Avoidance AC is 1261. Item Avoidance is straight 1:1 increase, so +10 Item Avoidance = +10 Avoidance AC.
    If I gain 400 HAGI, I get +129 Avoidance AC - but only 1 Avoidance (unless I'm misunderstanding Roshen's post)?
    Item Avoidance isn't a big part of this - we get considerably more Avoidance AC from Defense and HAGI. Is Item Avoidance used elsewhere that we should be more concerned about it?

    For Combat Effects, It used to be said that 100 CE = 100% additional proc rate (+2 procs per minute). This only affects innate item procs afaik - item procs are not a very good source of DPS. Does CE affect spell procs (i.e. Panther, bard songs) or sympathetic procs? If it could, this would make it a much more desirable stat.

    Overall it seems like increasing mod2's isn't going to result in a significant change. Any more info about how these calculations work would be very appreciated.
    Dre., Sancus and Gyurika Godofwar like this.
  19. Jordis Augur

    The nice boost in mana return over the short period was great...I almost got over the developers for so totally screwing Enchanters over by telling us we were being encouraged to use Cripple then giving higher versions to the Shamans. I came close to quitting over that because it wasn't a nerf it was an out and out insult to the class as a whole. I decided to stick with my friends and get over it, but no longer memorize cripple on raids, not when there's the very short term Dichotomic spell to mash every two minutes and the NET to try and keep on roaming monks (the only ones that want it besides our animation) and the two auras that have to be constantly maintained on raids.

    Split the difference and make it a group mana buff like the DD instead of single.
  20. segap Augur

    That part is confusing. The way I read it, only gear with no heroic stats, but with mod2s will get heroic stats added to compensate. I was guessing they're expecting the baseline heroic values on modern gear to translate to the current caps without the help of altering all items with mod2s.

    Do you think they'll update something like the silver-etched coin to replace its mod2s (5 combat eff, 5 dmg shield, 4 avoidance, 8 accuracy + many others) with even more heroics (20/20/15/20) than it already has? Will augs from the past few years with +8 heroics get boosted over the +8 baseline to replace mod2s?
    Geri_Petrovna likes this.
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