You're confusing speed with challenge. Bards were good pullers even before Fade, because they could CC the mobs they brought in; they were however not fast pullers when they needed to split mobs and just bring them in single until Fade came along. With Fade the speed increased dramatically. With the exceptions of mobs which are below level 35 and staying FD for 1 minute, FD does not have a guaranteed memblur. You can FD 100 times and still have agro on a mob, and quite possible end up having agro on more mobs by the end of it than you did at the beginning due to mobs assisting. FD pulling alone is not a fast way to pull. As for the whole class balance thing, that was addressed way back in mine (and others) original post; but regardless of that, I see absolutely no reasoning that supports that the TLP servers have anything to do with these changes being implemented other than people who play on the TLP servers having a bloated ego because changes that affect the early game have been made in the past. Also the majority of the changed will not even be seen by the TLP servers for 3-5 years (since the level caps do not go into place until level 75+), only change that the TLP servers will see any sooner than the change to how the invisiblity works and the introduction of it not working (which is just stupid). The invisibility change will make it harder to use, but will not greatly slow down TLP server Bard pulling when they gain the ability after PoP unlocks due to the fact that they have mez, snare (do they have root?), and other similar abilities which will allow them to more easily move outside of the invis prevention range. For that matter, the invisibility portion doesn't really have a meaningful impact upon Bards since they have invis songs.
"*** NPC *** - Reviewed the majority of enemies in Call of the Forsaken and The Buried Sea zones with regards to immunity to runspeed changes, mesmerization, stun, lull, charm, and fear, and removed or relaxed restrictions on most NPCs. - Some enemies have had their immunities to gravitate and fling abilities fixed so that these abilities will no longer attempt to cast rather than the abilities successfully casting and having no effect. This applies primarily to raid encounters and encounters in the Plane of War." Has anyone tested this yet? How high can bards mez and lull mobs? Rangers only get up to 105 on lulls. Blusterbolt though has a 100% chance to membur if the ranger can run far enough fast enough.
It would be super if the haste click of Lizardscale Plated Girdle were added to this list. Thank you guys for taking this step
I brought up progression servers because people kept arguing about raids no longer requiring pulling. The time supposedly in the past when they did require pullers, is not so "in the past" as people think it is. I am aware of how feign death works. I watch it happen in every raid because monks are usually the pullers..... On the specifics of bard godliness, our CC generally sucks and can only handle a couple mobs reliably. We must spend 3 seconds casting it (+3 for every resist) every 12-18 seconds (3 ticks, with it possibly starting anywhere within a tick). This is per mob. Do the math, we run out of time to do anything really fast. Assuming of course they aren't immune to CC. Plus iit has a very strict level limit. Typically the level of the caster or a level or two below you. At least for the first several versions. It is however still very nice to split mobs with, when coupled with fade, unlike the following other skills... Our snare also lasts 3 ticks, even with fade that is rarely (ever?) adequate to split anything. Plenty mobs are also immune to snare don't forget. No, bards do not have root. There's also lull, which also can be resisted, including getting you agro. also has the same 3 tick duration, and mobs can also be immune to it. I guess you'd know as they gave lull to monks too. Did I miss anything else? We also get boastful bellow, which is certainly sweet and should counter any claim that bards weren't clearly meant to have pulling handed to them on a silver platter with the PoP AA's. Oh and a harmshield song which seems awesome but I only find myself using it about once a year since it hits the entire group and then they cant cast anything. Now then into this mix of situational (and mostly inferior-to-other-classes' versions) tricks we got the best escape skill in the game. No doubt about that. I agree wholeheartedly. Which is being nerfed and you think this doesn't affect class balance? Not sure I saw whatever earlier post you referred to. But if that's what you think then I do not agree with you there, sir. One note regarding the invis, bards can maintain a song while faded. Being forced to use an invis song instead would be a nerf to our ability to do that. Though not clear that this change will require us to switch to an invis song. While we are viewing other classes' strengths and forgetting their weaknesses, also note monks have far better defense than bards, a big self heal, and another solid class role as dps. Now onto the level limit. (Apparently it is actually +4 according to the patch message?) We are mixing arguments about the value of fade to bards with arguments about the severity of this nerf. But ok. Looks like its not the end of the world but not just a trivial time sink (to make us grind AA's) either. In PoP it appears that there are bosses above lvl 75. Pretty much every main boss tier 4 and above looks to be lvl 80. That means a bard can't pull or drag corpses near it, or get on ramp any other way, without getting dead. Or sneak away when a wipe is underway to help with the recovery either. Maybe a limited issue to you, but it seems painful to me. Looks like Tacvi has one boss in addition to Tunat that is 80. So a bit less suffering to be had there. According to the bestiary, everything in anguish including OMM is lvl 75 amazingly enough (is that right?), so apparently the level limit is a non-issue here. Next is, uh, Vish I think which is lvl 80 again. I'd imagine getting eaten by bosses is a new trend that will return to stay at least the next few expansions at least till the level cap is raised.
It just occurred to me, how many resources were put into outright attacking abilities to code all of this nonsense when people still regularly crash going into zones like Argin-Hiz, Neriak, Dead Hills, and others. Seriously, hours of cumulative time have been wasted on raids by this already, having to wait for people to log back in because the client hits a memory usage point where it crashes. So work goes into removing things from people rather than fixing this years long issue that is extremely disruptive and happens pretty much every single raid now in some zones? Wait, it's not even equal level? Fling only works below level? Why add a fun and useful ability only to remove it? This is a blanket outright removal of critical utility. I hope they make sure adds and such where this could be useful are low enough, unless they are going to pull a "all raids should be people standing still killing things and nothing else" philosophy, which is pretty darn boring and would only work for the strongest guilds. As far as I'm concerned, almost nothing the expansion could do could offset my disgust. The one and only reason I will continue playing if this goes through at this point is my friends and guild. Just disgusting. Oh yay, I get to spend more AAs to retain less ability than I have now. Goodie! It is hard for me to figure out how to put my disgust into words because I am usually trying to be very polite. If I don't word it strongly enough, it won't emphasize how I feel about this. Flinging and moving mobs around and such is one of the most fun things added to the game over the years. For me, all this amounts to is the addition of annoyance on purpose. Also, won't it be nice to have trains again? (Something I never thought.)
Sorry for the double post but I feel this is serious enough to need more mentioning. Is it the developers' intentions to destroy all but the strongest raid guilds? Was any thought put into the fact they may outright remove the ability for some guilds to function, or put the final nail in the coffin for others? I'm sure some of the highest end raiders would be thrilled, until the player base dries up from the bottom up. This is pulling the rug out from under everyone's feet. It's wrong. Making people relearn events they already farm when their guild might be on shaky ground to begin with is ridiculous. Are the developers even reading this? How could they put such major ability-destroying changes into a fast track patch and not have any interaction with the players about this? How is that good for the game? Okay, adding more raids in the expansion. Who are they designed for though, only the strongest, and if so how long can you design that way until everything dries up from the bottom up? Raid guilds have a very large variety of varied compositions. For some, a single person not making a raid can render all current content impossible. Designing so that the percentages of each archetype and even class are "just so" is not realistic for the majority of the game. Saying "get more this or that" for some narrowly-designed intended strat will make some events impossible. That events have multiple approaches is wonderful. So they have this "vision" of how each event should be done and flings and lures and whatnot are "too easy" so they want to remove fun abilities from what raiders can do entirely from many/most events. Are they aware the "wrecking ball" as someone put it they may be inflicting on the raid game with this, setting back some guilds possibly months if not outright destroying them? I saw some post, I don't remember if it was an official dev post, regarding pets and positioning mobs. How the heck is positioning a mob not being a chore a bad thing? Why should adding a chore back to the game be a goal? What's next, bringing back swarm pet push? Oh such fun, just position better if the mob goes flying across the room. That's "challenging." I really hope they dial back most of this. I really fear for the lower end guilds. What may already be tough will be impossible for some, and guilds that are doing decently but not amongst the top will be reduced to struggling to relearn events they already can beat. I really wonder if the developers understand how much damage they may be doing in one swoop.
There are a few issues with the changes to fade/pulling that need to be addressed: Bard Mana Regen: Fading Memories is slated to cost 3155 mana at level 105. My bard's mana regen = 160/tick Fading Memories = 3155 mana Aria of Maetanrus = 150 mana = sustained = -75/tick Bard mana regen (with a normal melody) = 85/tick Time to regen 1 fade (pre-patch) = 1:02 Time to regen 1 fade = 3:42 If we are increasing the mana cost of Fading Memories, bards could really use a significant bard-only mana regen AA to go along with it. Being able to fade less frequently is a big drop in pulling efficiency. Bard Survivability: Bards have few options to protect ourselves - Shield of Notes (95k 50% Vie, 36m reuse), Deftdance (24s auto parry, 21m reuse), and Hymn of the Last Stand (42k hp buff, 1.5m duration, 7m reuse). Fading Memories is the #1 bard survivability tool. With this change, fade will be out for several minutes after a rez. We could really use some improvements in this area (and we can't hold aggro, so don't worry about bards suddenly tanking anything). For your amusement, here is my TDS raid geared bard dying in under 4 seconds, 11 times (PoW raid): Code: [Sat Sep 19 17:33:48 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 3565 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:48 2015] Vallon Zek bashes YOU for 2823 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:48 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 17694 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:48 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 15462 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:48 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 7283 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:48 2015] Vallon Zek kicks YOU for 2848 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:50 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 17694 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:50 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 5796 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:50 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 6540 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:50 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 3565 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:50 2015] The gods have healed you for 57289 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:50 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 17694 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:51 2015] Your veins incinerate. You have taken 33783 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:52 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 3565 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:52 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 9514 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:52 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 3565 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:52 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 13976 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:52 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 10258 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:52 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 7283 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:33:52 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 17:37:59 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 3961 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:37:59 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 4787 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:37:59 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 18833 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:37:59 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 16354 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:37:59 2015] Vallon Zek kicks YOU for 2418 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:38:00 2015] You have taken 4875 damage from Strategic Blow by Tallon Zek [Sat Sep 19 17:38:00 2015] You have taken 5200 damage from Vallon's Precision by Vallon Zek [Sat Sep 19 17:38:01 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 3961 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:38:01 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 8092 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:38:01 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 19659 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:38:01 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 19659 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:38:01 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 17:42:08 2015] You are immolated by flame. You have taken 50333 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:42:09 2015] You have taken 5200 damage from Vallon's Precision by Vallon Zek [Sat Sep 19 17:42:09 2015] You have taken 30875 damage from Barb of Tallon by Tallon Zek [Sat Sep 19 17:42:09 2015] A Rallosian provost slashes YOU for 5574 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 17:42:09 2015] You have been slain by a Rallosian provost! [Sat Sep 19 18:02:34 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 38063 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:02:34 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 20419 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:02:34 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 20419 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:02:36 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 36121 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:02:36 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 21727 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:02:36 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 21727 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:02:36 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 18:04:04 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 19659 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:04 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 10571 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:04 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 11397 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:04 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 6440 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:04 2015] Vallon Zek bashes YOU for 3136 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:06 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 13876 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:06 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 3961 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:06 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 15528 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:06 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 14702 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:06 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 8918 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:04:06 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian flamespeaker crushes YOU for 19093 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian flamespeaker crushes YOU for 14556 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian flamespeaker hits YOU for 16825 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian flamespeaker bashes YOU for 3972 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian archer slashes YOU for 13394 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian archer slashes YOU for 18717 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian archer slashes YOU for 17830 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian archer slashes YOU for 6296 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:54 2015] A Rallosian archer bashes YOU for 5410 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:55 2015] A Rallosian warmaster slashes YOU for 6570 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:55 2015] A Rallosian warmaster slashes YOU for 11512 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:11:55 2015] You have been slain by a Rallosian warmaster! [Sat Sep 19 18:14:14 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 16872 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:14:14 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 38680 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:14:14 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 15418 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:14:14 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 32865 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:14:14 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 18:18:20 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 19659 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:18:20 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 12223 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:18:22 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 11473 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:18:22 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 8092 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:18:22 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 13876 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:18:22 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 9745 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:18:24 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 18007 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:18:24 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 18:46:08 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 18909 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:46:08 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 16354 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:46:08 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 8918 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:46:08 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 17180 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:46:10 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 15528 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:46:10 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 15528 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:46:11 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 19659 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:46:11 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 18:54:43 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 43042 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:54:43 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 43042 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:54:43 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! [Sat Sep 19 18:57:20 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 37226 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:57:20 2015] Vallon Zek hits YOU for 41588 points of damage. [Sat Sep 19 18:57:20 2015] You have been slain by Vallon Zek! Pulling Difficulty: As previously mentioned, difficult pulling has a lot to do with what zone you're in. When a lot of pulling scenarios look like this: And have mobs that are easy enough to do this: It's no surprise that the developers want to add pulling difficulty to the game. But I promise that if mobs continue to be as easy as they are, the preferred pulling method will look like the above. Single pulls have to have value - it has to be worth it to do the extra work, and reducing the power of pulling abilities does not increase the value of a single pull; it decreases the value of pulling classes. Should EQ be easy or hard? There's a fine line between "too hard" and "boring." The devs want to make EQ more challenging (reining back pulling abilities), but at the same time, are backpedaling on things that make EQ challenging (Argin Hiz NPC immunities). A zone can't make pulling classes desirable, be solo/moloable, and be accessible to groups without specific classes all at the same time. Even if parts of a zone service each particular scenario, when people want to move around they are going to be upset. Some of my favorite difficult pulling zones are from UF, VoA, and PoW. Zones with challenging mobs that need to be CC'd or split make good zones for pulling. Argin Hiz was another decent zone for challenging pulls. These are examples of some of the most hated content in EQ, because the difficulty gets in the way of a lot of people's fun - no one likes feeling incapable, but if you're fully capable without a puller, there isn't a good reason to bring one. You can't have it both ways. The removal of the invis component on fade abilities is silly - it's completely circumvented by a key like the following: /alt act Fade/useitem Invis Potion (or /alt act Invis)I'd much rather the invis component continue, instead of having new/inexperienced players at a disadvantage for not knowing how to set this up. In the past few years I thought EQ was being geared toward the easy side - AA autogrant, heroic characters, every class can drop aggro, and most zones are pretty easy to pull. Most content is doable without the perfect classes, and it doesn't require raid gear. All of these changes are reasonable and often keep the average player from having a bad time while playing. Now we are moving in the other direction - nerfing fade and pulling abilities. I have a feeling that people who leveled exclusively in DH are going to be in for a rude awakening with the next expansion (if they even play in it). I also disagree with the creation of needless complexity in the AA system. Fading Memories is a simple ability that improves with every expansion, and never required an update. Now you are arbitrarily creating 35 ranks of pre-existing AAs, and will have to continue doing so. I'd much rather see AAs become less complicated; I find the AA window for unfamiliar classes overwhelming. I'd like to know why Fade needs to be restricted by NPC level. Here's the same logic applied to other EQ abilties: Low level clerics can't rez high level players Higher level NPCs see through a lower level FD High level NPCs require high level memblur, snare, dispel, root, slow, resist debuffs High level NPCs see through low level sneak/hide/invis We do see level restrictions for some things - mez, stun, charm, pacify. Level restrictions allow abilities room for growth, whereas this change restricts abilities that previously (for 12 years?) had none, and leaves others intact. Overall it sounds like fade is covering up a lot of other issues, like melee survivability on raids, rampage, endurance regen, and aggro management. If fade is going to be nerfed these issues need to be addressed.
Adding mana cost to fade does not make it take skill to use it. All it will do is make you med more often or bring another puller. I personally don't sit there spamming fade right now maybe you do and that is ok if you need to for that pull. This change is poorly thought out because it is pushing people into lower level content to use the abilities or spend more time not playing as the puller splits which won't be hard or take any more skill it will just be time consuming. It will also favor over geared tanks that can just take on the adds instead of bothering with a puller at all. The complaining about extended target window making mezzing too easy is silly as well, if the hardest part is clicking a different part of your screen then it is not skill.
Get ready for a nerf to invis potions! Agree. Even if the XTar window was gone the key commands for 'toggle last two targets' or 'cycle through targets' still function, among others. If people think the window makes the game too easy - guess what? You can hide it on your UI!
Yeah but crappy mana regen for bards was clearly too extreme. So the issue was vastly reduced very quickly with subsequent expansions. And other classes got huge mana regen benefits too eliminating their sitting games as well. However I'll take this compromise: give us an old-school fading memories that takes 25% mana or whatever (and none of these new restrictions), plus a new "fade" that has all these silly adjustments and nerfs. They can throw in a recast delay to the new one even By the way the tricks you listed above were and remain doable by classes that can feign death of course.
I don't think pulling has been trivial at all, especially in places like Tower or Rot or Thuiliasaur group missions. As someone said earlier, the reason pull and fling are being used so much is they are often the only things that work. So many of the mobs in the higher end game can't be harmo'd, lulled, are runspeed/root immune, mez proof or mez resistant. The game needs to be challenging, sure, but it also needs to be fun. So much of this last expansion isn't. To make things even worse, Fade, which makes bad pulls a bit more survivable is being nerfed. So we are saving a few seconds after a death by not having to click are item buffs? Nice for sure but doesn't compensate for how much less fun and how much less playable the game is getting.
This x1000000, I want to hug you. Devs seriously need to listen to that post. If I want to go out and play the game for a while, I either grab a group of guilded friends or search for people in general chat. Regardless of the makeup of the group, there's no one in their right mind that's going to say "Yes, let's go grind mindlessly for several hours." More often than not, we're going to choose the method that allows us to be incredibly lazy while still feeling like we're accomplishing something: (daily) heroic adventures. In those HAs, your norm is pretty much a few mobs here and a few mobs there which are all separated by several feet of space in between. Even with all sorts of fancy tools like mesmerize, lull, fade, lurch, lure, displacement, blusterbolt, moving mountains, etc., etc., I could honestly care less about the trouble that it's worth and would rather opt for the much easier and faster route of "Pull these three to four mobs, tank and kill them all, then pull those three to four mobs and tank and kill them all, and then repeat until we have to hail something for experience." In fact, if you're talking about any of these abilities prior to the patch, chances are they're being used as positioning tools in a group or a raid, not to actually pull something in style. Therefore, we can say goodbye to luring mobs together on events like Arx 1 for mezzing. We can also say goodbye to luring mobs together on events like Arx 2, 3, and 4 for AE damage, and we can say goodbye to giving a quick punt to a mob to pack it tightly into a corner. Was stuff like this all of a sudden deemed "not intended" as well or is it just something we'll have to live with as a result of random blanket nerfs? Let's get real, the only benefit of solo-pulling a mob out of a pack or across a zone these days is looking cool in front of your group, and that's not the result of us having these abilities but rather a result of the content that has been designed. It's not our fault that you gave such abilities to us and it's not our fault that we're using them because you made all of the old tools useless through mob immunities. Instead, it's on you guys as developers to make content that isn't trivialized or "broken" by us having things that we've had for 10 years or more. Having played with these changes on Test, these nerfs just result in everything getting easier for non-pulling classes to single namers out of a pack of mobs and harder for pulling classes to do the same thing. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying harder and more involved than simply running in, running out, and hitting one button. When I can fade a group of mobs on my Berserker alt and make the namer keep coming solo-style (because it's above the level cap on his fade) compared to the tricks I have to use on my Bard to produce the same result (because the mob is within the level cap and stays grouped with a bunch of other mobs)... there's a real flaw in theory and design that's being overlooked and is pretty counter intuitive to the whole "let's make pulling a thing again!" goal. Nerfs to stuff that has worked the way it has worked for so long are just silly and more frustrating than they're worth at this point in time. There's so few things that make a Bard (for example) unique anymore that it's honestly just getting better to click abilities, /melody, /afk, and come back every 3 minutes for another Epic click. You're basically just as effective as you would be staying behind the keyboard in real time. I'd talk about the things we have left to call our own, but I'm afraid someone might see them and determine that they "weren't intended to work that way" after a decade or more of having them.
While I don't disagree with a lot of what you're asserting, citing an sk swarming example while under visage of death/epic 2.0 (nice touch with the ornament even, heh) in Gribble isn't really a fair comparison for a "normal" pulling strat, compared to a zone like Argin-hiz at 100. In low trivial zones from a pure exp gain standpoint, sure, pulling is just who can pull the fastest more than anything else, and you don't really need an actual pulling class...or even a tank or healer, for that matter. You may as well have posted a shot of a rogue soloing a swarm of humanoids with riposte disc, rogue's fury and assassinate procs for all the relevance it has. Then a video of the other 19 minutes while they sit and wait for discs to repop. You're also really only looking at one specific example: pure experience gain. Single pulls are only going to have value from a pure exp standpoint if no cc is present or if the content is hard enough to kill people with a bad pull. For a long time in EQ exp has been directly linked to quantity of kills over quality in a lot of cases, which is why so many folks stick to what's fast/easy and avoid risk/challenge when grinding. But from a non-pure-exp standpoint, and let's not kid ourselves on how many of us are max, max AA'd, single pulling still has some value, no? When farming things being able to pull the mob you want and not the 10 that you don't saves a lot of time, eh? And if you're doing tasks looking for specific mobs, same scenario. More time means accomplishing goals faster with less risk and/or the ability to go find/kill more mobs that you *do* want. Still seems valuable to me. Disclaimer: my main's probably one of the worst offenders with easymode splitting with HA/DE, so I'm getting "nerfed" and really don't have any problems with it. Will adapt and survive.
Read the last few pages. Is anyone happy with the fade changes? This revamping of the combat system is a driving force for me leaving other games. The player base of EQ1 is probably around an average age of 40? We aren't energetic teenagers that want to relearn the game every time a patch comes out. If you want to change something to make pulling more challenging do it in the next expansion by adjusting the mobs. Not the tools we have been using and are comfortable with.
Honestly it all depends on your tank, If your tank is max group geared or raid geared you will be doing at least 4 mob pulls all day in all content ever since like RoF or you are wasting time killing slower and wasting more time waiting on more pulls and that. Then if you have one of the classes that can AE hard since t3 RoF you can do a 20ish mob pull once every 20 mins or so. If you're talking about kill tasks you'd just do this once in an area you can pull most of what you need and task is done within 5 minutes. The super casuals might not be at this level yet unless they slum it in old content.
I remember a time when pulling and splitting wasnt so easy, I also remember the huge trains of mobs that would chain agro most of the zone, I remember the piles of corpses build up so much that it crashed a zone. Is this what you really want, going to be fun ....
I suspect the fade changes and the clicky changes may have come out of a meeting to deal with a drop in all access subscriptions and fewer players logging in. The click change came when someone suggested removing irritating things that don't add value or challenge to the game. The fade changes came when someone suggested that players were finding EQ too easy and getting bore so lets make it more challenging. Going to miss clickies a bit but not going to give up the Click once for a lifetime ability when we get it either. I just hope we don't lose more players with the changes then we retain because of the changes.
I was busy all weekend and didn't really play other than to chat with people. I'm about to go out and do a bit of testing on Test and will be mostly using my ranger to do the killing for the Franklin Teek dailies & then may knock out an HA with ranger & SK. I'm not going to take the time to parse tonight but I can test cover tracks and blusterbolt/flusterbolt and HA/DE and see how much of a change it is. When using an SK I almost always pulled with HA/DE before COTF and the advent of super easy HAs with wimpy mobs. I haven't done much in TDS as I've been focusing on leveling & AAing over progression so I have very little experience past Brother Island. I did some stuff in Caverns and really disliked the way the zone is set up with so many see invis & undead mobs hanging out in close proximity to each other. That might be the worst zone since DH & Bixie which are both so empty and are just hubs for HAs. All 3 of those zones are a prime example of what not to do ever again as far as zone design & layout.
I'm part of a lower end guild. We're already seeing "casualties" with several of our more active members quitting over these changes. I really DON'T think these changes were well thought out at all.
