Raids, pure melee, hybrids and dps

hrmmm.....

top burns: wiz, zerker, rogue, ranger, mage, beast
top sustained: necro, mage, beast

yes thats perfectly reasonable considering the amount of dps beasts add to their grp. look at the lists, beasts are the ONLY ones in there capable of boosting their grpmates dps by over 30%. thats the problem, you shouldnt have that high of personal dps when your adding that much dps to others. where are bards in either of those categories again?

My guild must have some stellar monks, I always see them near the top of the parse.

I'll ask what your dps classes are burning for if you think 90k is high, or if you mean a duration over around 60 seconds which is what I generally always mean when I say burn/burst (shaman epic duration). No they shouldn't be beating anyone at that level of dps though, clerics, enchanters, they might catch a knight or something, I'm not sure how that new warrior ability will work out either.

If the op had listed and supported the perceived shortcomings of their class it would have been a request for a boost. When they specifically point out the improvements in another class it is a veiled call for a nerf.

You have never play a ranger I see. If you had you would know that only time good ranger ranges is during a 3 and a half minute burn. After that they are very much melee for another 16 and a half minutes. Things that make you say hmmmm.

Ok how is this then <With the Tools that i have i melee better then a Ranger with the Tools that they have, Therefore Devs intend Beastlords to be a Better Melee Type DPS Hybrid then the Ranger>

I don't k.ow what his intentions are but beast dps is relevant to the subject just as if rangers suddenly started out tanking warriors on a consistent bases they would be relevant to the discussion.

85% of the time a ranger should be in melee, 15% of the time (the duration of their disc) they should be using their bow.

We're not a ranged dps class, we are a class that happens to be good at ranged dps some of the time.

Everyone's going to have a view on what the "ideal" dps group is. All I can tell you that numbers speak for themselves. In my experience, the bst having a dps group is nice, however not necessary in the grand scheme of things.

It's being implied that rangers are only good dps on a burn with their bow. I disagree. I've seen some impressive numbers put out by our ranger whether or not they are doing melee or range.

I've been with RoI for almost two years now and can tell you it's a rare occasion that I get an "optimal" dps group. So some of you think we are doing it wrong, more power to you, however I think that our record speaks for itself.

Group synergy is a matter of opinion. I personally can live without an optimal group...heck, I'm always happy to see a monk get a spot in a dps group instead of me.

I always try to keep in mind that I will be productive to the raid no matter where I'm placed. This people is called being a team player for the good of the guild.

But Beastlords/warder are better at melee 100% of the time, thats what i been trying to point out and show that we should not be in some off group hitting a DPS group that has a Ranger or Monk in it with Ruaabri Fury, Merciless Ferocity and Group BA. I bet my Guild is not the only guild that does this with Beastlords always getting DPS groups. Trying to get us pulled out of these groups for other classes is the same as a Nerf Call. anyhow the Game is all about DPS group and raid anymore, and i like finally being at the top after years of being at the bottom.

Well said.

I don´t see us (rogs) having any shortcomings, what I have a hard time coming to grips with is that a beast is leaving us fairly far behind, and the fact that they are NOT a pure melee class. Granted our beasts are exceptional players, but trust me when I tell you so am I, and i know how to play my class to the fullest. Still I can not beat them. And I am not talking about the burns, I am talking about about the nrs after the fight, when all damage/dps is done and calculated. maybe I am in the wrong looking at those nrs, but imho a hybrid shouldnt beat a pure melee given same gear skill etc etc, (and ofc there are fights where a rog can´t shine or utilise all skills, during those fight i have no issue with being beaten ).

And like I said i am not asking for beasts to be nerfed, noone is, that would just hurt the raids and none of us want that. I would however prefer not being behind a hybrid, and since we dont want a nerf that just leaves some kind of boost, (and not just us rogs but all pure melee)

I really don´t know how else to explain what my feelings are concerning this, and I am truly sorry if some of you percieve this as a nerf thread. I guess I could take the *explain it to me like I am a 5 year old* route but I really don´t think we need to resort to that

Are you actually comparing things fairly?

A beastlord should be close enough for discomfort but not enough that you really care, yes you should beat them as a rogue.

Like I said before if you are comparing just melee type damage that's wrong, you have to include all "Hit" damage for rangers if you want to compare auto attack damage numbers. Yes auto attack, not melee. Yes this can be skewed because "Hit" damage is modified by most anything that affects melee, and we have two big nukes that are also "Hit" damage, odds are if a lot of your damage is spell or pet based that you will lose this comparison when you do it.

No I didn't suggest taking you out of those dps groups, your class does well enough that if you are sufficiently skilled there is no problem with a beastlord being in a dps group. I did however say that if you are not sufficiently skilled that you can still do your job outside of that group. That's simply a fact, suffice it to say though if all your rangers sit back and use a bow all the time and don't ever melee that you shouldn't lose your spot to them, at least not this expansion.

Monks Rogues, Zerkers should be "THE" top Melee parsers, Followed closely by Rangers(who are not just ranged anyone thinking that is daft) Beastlords.

Rangers benefit highly from bard/shaman in their burns and the fact that a Beastlord is a Hybrid as well(Melee/Caster) class their dmg should be on par with each other just because you are 100% melee, and rangers are 85/15 Melee/Ranged doesn't mean you should be blowing them out of the water with parses.

Also for who ever said it NOT having a ranger in the ideal dps group WT*!

Would i love to see a 70/80k Parse as a bard, Sure as hell damn right I Would. But I also know that we are ADPS and the fact I know that some of my Bard friends in guilds such as RoI do get 54-58k parses now and are not specifically fully T2 Raid geared/songs just yet meaning we should be able to push at the absolute max somewhere in the 60-62ish area is a ncie thing to see. Will that be the case for every bard no...

OMG I think im gonna book mark this page on the forums, hatsee being nice to a monk? Who ever thought you would see that day, jk man ;P just wanted to bring some humor to the heated topic

90k was a lot of DPS 2 to 3 expansions ago. It isn't now.

YOU FORGOT WIZARDS

A conjurer of cheap tricks.

I vaguely remember an everquest forum during fanfaire a couple of years ago where the panelists (devs) mentioned a server side parsing system/program that would allow them to more accurately balance class dps.
lolol
I think it needs to be patched or something, the sheer volume of these types of issues, and the threads that follow, proves it was never implemented/isn't being monitored/or is completely broken.