Raids, pure melee, hybrids and dps

^^
This...a Monk and Ranger would benefit much more in a "dps" group than a beast. Why you ask? Exactly what Hatsee said, our ADPS is target-able...in turn, when we cast it, we reap the benefits of it. Then it becomes about raid balance. The Monks/Rangers do more dps in that group, and I do less in my group...however the gain from the Monk/Ranger would outweigh the loss of my dps. So my dps "ego" takes a dive...big whoop. The guild has just gained overall. My "usual" group is never the same make up mainly because that group gets the "extra's", or to put it bluntly, classes and people that can handle not being on the top of the parse or can do well without bards/shammies.

Oh, sorry then.

I was having flashbacks to a few people I used to argue with on the old forums that insisted they should beat everyone at all times because of their class. This includes a berserker that asserted that if he died 30 seconds before a burn he should still beat me and everyone else simply because he's a berserker.

Interesting times.

Exaggeration is used an awful lot by the "hybrids must always be second-class citizens" crowd, though.

Why was my first thought, when I realized you are a tank, to scream out "Spellbook superiority!"

I just do not see how, maybe a Monk could but a Ranger would not gain close to what a Beast does in a Melee dps group. Rangers are a ranged class keep them where they belong to many melee dps classes as it is.

Let me put simply. If I'm in group the "dps" group, and the ranger isn't...I cast Beast fury on my group (because it's the biggest bang for the buck) and then the ranger in the "non-dps" group doesn't get it. Sooooo, in turn if you swap those two classes out...both the ranger and I get beast fury (see what I'm getting at here?). Range fight or not, rangers benefit from beast fury. It's about maximizing your resources.

Just a question.

Are your rangers using a bow only? Because that's wrong if they are.

The only thing 'lost' to a ranger in a dps group when they get Ruaabri's Fury is the flurry mod, nearly anything that affects melee works on archery as well. After the burn though we're in there in melee for the bulk of all fights, have been for years.

just ... wow

We do not let them Melee, as in Zerkers, Rogues Beast and Bards mostly control the DPS groups in our guild why should a ranged dps class melee anyhow Beastlord + Pet way out Melee a Ranger and with Growl up which we can do all the time we Own Ranger Melee dps. You must remember in a group my Pet gains Buffs from DPS group as well.

It's a new expansion and some classes have moved up the food chain like usual happened. Instead of being happy for them let's complain about them even though since the beginning of expansions classes have shuffled each time. Ride the wave and enjoy your guildmate's success instead of crying about it because the next time it will be different classes that shine.

Monks do need looking into and some help or boosts.

Amorcen

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I said that rangers are not a ranged dps class, yet here you are stating we are. What do you know that I don't?

And no, your pet doesn't do more damage than I do.

lol yes lets continue to ignore that beasts are the 2nd best adps in the raid game, have buffs, can heal, and can dps.

so what we should be talking about is giving bards a grp heal then boost their personal dps to 80-90k and calling it squaresies among the hybrids.

I'm not ignoring it. I'm just use to after all these years of classes flip flopping all the time. This expansion is no different than past ones. Either you like your class and ride the wave when its up AND down or your main switch because someone shining for a bit instead of you makes it so only parsing matters in your gameplay instead of winning.

Amorcen

Actually with how things are if bards could burn for around that it would be fine. Group heals might be questionable though.

.... yes doubling a classes dps from one expansion to the next has proven to be sooooo healthy for the game and makes balancing the next expantion supppppper un-complicated. /sarcastic nod

what are your pure melee dpsing for that you think hybrids can be that high? or do you not think a pure melee should be beating the hybrids?

Above post is a hyperbole of what I was going to say.

No one talks about how bad bard DPS is. Why? Because they are the best ADPS class in the game, and pay for that privilege through lower personal DPS.

The current melee paradigm is to stack your best DPS (Rogue, Berserker) with your best ADPS (Bard, Shaman, and Beastlord) for maximum results. Monks (and to a lesser extent, rangers) currently have no place in this paradigm. You could have the BL out of group, but I think the BL in group gains more than a ranger would through the pet buffs, especially with flurry+pet flurry buff to their warder. Monks are not the best DPS, we are not reasonable substitutes. We are the only class that provides 0 ADPS (unless you're talking Synergy debuff, but that only applies to other monks). It has been stated that monks are not to be a DPS class, so we need to be moved more toward rogue and berserker levels of damage. It was stated during our AA chat that we do need some help, and that DPS should be more or less interchangable. The frustration lies with no progress being made or communicated in this regard. Itemization issues (no 18 delay weapon, Baton of Flame being a blatant downgrade) were raised in beta with no action. Since the AA chat, we have gained no ground through the January and February patches. There is no communication with us about these issues. The only official response we have from anyone about our current situation is "Don't hate bro." on the monks... thread said as a joke. We want to see things get better for us, but all of our suggestions are met with different versions of "we don't think monks need that" or "don't be so concerned with numbers." I think most of the community recognizes we need some help right now, we just want to know that we're being heard, and that something is being done.

We don't expect to be the most powerful class, we just want to feel justified in our raid spot. Currently, I feel like my guild would be better served if I were literally any other DPS class.

I am a bit confused, is it really even a "dps group" without a beastlord in it? Maybe different people have a different definition of dps group /shrug.
No complaints from me if an extremely well played beast beats me on longer parses. Good players show up consistently, bad ones don't. Threads like this illustrate my point........if you are not beating a class you think you should be beating on parses, look at what you are doing instead of what everyone else is and get better.

My Warder and I do more Damage then you though(Beastlords melee is more then Rangers as long as we keep Growl up without adding our Warders) therefore Beastlord in dps group instead of Ranger its Logical, Rangers have no place in a Melee DPS group leave that to the Melee Class types.

Best DPS groups are Bard, Beastlord, Zerker, Rogue, Shaman extra spot for a second Beastlord, Zerker or Rogue. No Ranger there not a melee class there Melee is weak sauce.

I am a Hybrid Melee dps there a Hybrid Ranged dps there is a difference.

You can tell a whole lot of people have no clue what they are talking about which is about par for the course. The one kid who said their rangers do nothing but bow was truly lol worthy. Anyway, if monks are not dps then what are they? Tanks? They have no agro abilities that I am aware of. Dps is what they are and excluding the whole bad player good player thing they should be doing generally be doing very well at it.

Of course when some one asks for a boost the mental midgets come out of the wood works crying about nerf calls. Sort of annoying but again par for the course.