Raid boss strikethrough, or not?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Yahsha, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. Wulfhere Augur

    For defense, I think you get to choose if you are missed (HAgi) or riposting (HDex), and the rest may be noise.

    The curious thing is NPC riposte rates. NPC can obviously riposte your initiated swings, so swinging less often is better. Are NPC riposting your own riposte swings? If they are, then that is a bad rate of return on HDex.
  2. Triconix Augur

    $20 says it was an oversight that mobs aren't at 100% h-strikethough.

    If you're a war, you're at or just under 100% standing crit rate while stacking hagil so the returns on HDex are minimal for dps, and possibly temporary to just TOL for tanking benefits.

    For me, the swap to HDex would be "easier" as I barely play these days and have like 3 TOL multistat augs. However, still not going to. I definitely wouldn't waste my time running those missions again for another new set of 20 augs, especially since the lockout is 6 hours now.

    In the end, Hsta still sucks.
  3. Yahsha Journeyman

    We are working on that now. Going to take some time to change augs out to go full Agi. Will report back with parses when they become available.
  4. Wulfhere Augur

    I'm thinking about parsing soft tanking (no swings), vs passive swings (ripostes only) vs all swings (autoattack on and riposting). I want to try to measure how much NPC riposte and strikethrough stats boost NPC DPS and spike damage.
  5. shiftie Augur

    This is the one that needs to be run. Because the data might show it is better off defensively to not swing. Which could be a catalyst for reversing this heroic strike through nonsense.
    Xeladom and Wulfhere like this.
  6. Triconix Augur

    Hypothetically, wouldn't it literally always be better defensively to not swing? You will always run the risk of getting riposted in return. The only question then would be what amount of damage are you willing to absorb from riposte and/or strikethrough before you feel the added active tank dps is not worth having?
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    My interest is in the knowing the Risk vs Reward of swinging against current mobs, and whether or not it is out of wack. Similar to the old Avatar of War fight where it was 2H or shield because dual wield was too dangerous.

    I feel it's currently unbalanced because I take a round of damage for 200K plus (apx 45% of my HP pool) from 4+ swings. Every mob can kill me in 2-3 rounds. What?

    As a paladin, I chain cast stuns to mitigate damage in such harsh combat. We're in an era where my stun spells are preventing millions of HP in damage per fight. The worth of a stun is so high right now that it makes my other "tanking" spells irrelevant for the time being. This happens every so often in eras where NPC have been badly tuned, usually at the start of a new level expansion (like now).

    Riposte is like spell reflection. Do we really believe that every NPC should be able to reflect 20% or more of all spells cast against them? That it's good for the game? I don't.
    Allayna likes this.
  8. Triconix Augur

    We're in an era where the shortcomings of a warrior are starting to creep back into relevancy IE [lack of] self-healing, stuns, runes, lifetaps, etc.

    It wasn't long ago I could straight up solo trash mobs in era. Those days are long gone in TOL with hp bloat, mob damage output, and lack of being able to consistently get hp back. I can stack every imaginable disc that is stackable and still have 0.00% chance of living while solo.

    Warrior tank abilities are really starting to feel mediocre compared to the power of knight abilities. Our best class-only disc is marginally better than the knight one and almost all our secondary abilities are either given to a knight or so undercapped in total raw damage absorption that they last < 50% of their max potential uptime leaving us nearly defenseless for long stretches of time or completely reliant on a stupid glyph which I hate is the new "meta." How is a tank so trivialized and neutered down that it's primary/strongest defensive ability is globally available to literally every class in the game?
    Wulfhere and Allayna like this.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    I can commiserate with you there. This is how a paladin feels much of the time the past few years because paladin's have only 3 tanking discs. We cover that longer time gap with mitigation spells that are currently under-powered (Preservation, Protective, Parlay) and are incessantly interrupted for those with cast times > 0.5sec.
    Allayna and Triconix like this.
  10. Wulfhere Augur

    I feel that this game has been transformed into a carpal-tunnel inducing twitch fest of spam healing and other abilities where the scoring is checked at 1 second intervals thanks to the modern NPC's 10 delay melee rounds. Don't stop twitching and don't blink, else you're getting a rez box.
    Allayna and Triconix like this.
  11. Triconix Augur

    Yep, the modern warrior is in such a boring and disheartening state. Unless you're actively trying to make things more difficult to test yourself, the "meta" raid warrior is so generic and dreadfully easy.

    Initiate tank rotation with stand + nttb 5.0 while twisting in anything short term - dicho, coa bp, papers, etc. - that stacks because right after you can go Dragon supergod glyph mode for 5 minutes and you won't have to worry about anything else because once the 5 minutes have elapsed nearly everything will be back on rotation! Repeat this ad nauseum for every single event.

    The only way to put any emphasis on MTing is purposely not using Dragon and who in the right mind purposely omits the single most powerful tanking tool in the game? That's like buying a car and deciding you want to remove the steering wheel while driving.

    The only thing that requires more than 5 functioning braincells is stacking aggro to maximize it. Once you get that down, MTing on raids is boring these days.

    Warriors are better off leaving MTing to SKs because why not and going all out dps mode. At least it's somewhat enjoyable. And even then, an SK can put up ridiculous dps numbers so warriors can just go sit on their thumbs and spin.

    And let's not even talk about the group game. One class can click a 17 year old item and afk a bit and have no issue killing while the other can blow everything in their arsenal and maybe squeak by with a kill only to have everything down for 5 minutes to 20 hours (this is a bit hyperbolic, but you get my point).
  12. Qimble Augur

    Are you talking about group content or raid content? Admittedly I haven't tried stuns much in raids in favor of aggro / other defensive spells but I was not aware of any significant t1/2 mobs that are vulnerable to stuns.

    re:tanking disc rotation, the only time it really should be an issue is in raids. And IMO that's on purpose that we have to either accept being squishy on those fights or incorporate dragon glyph into the rotation. I haven't run across a raid encounter yet where I couldn't do a rotation including dragon glyph and have a defensive + heal mod running for the entire duration.
  13. Wulfhere Augur

    Both, although primarily group content. When it's known that raid adds can be stunned, which is rare, I stun the hell out of them.
    Glpyhs are not part of any class, because they are purchasable items for every class, and I do not include any of them in this discussion. Any event that requires expenditure of any glyph by any class for any reason (tanking, aggro, damage, mana preservation) is broken. Glyphs are easy-mode for the AA-wealthy and nothing more.
  14. Qimble Augur

    Glyphs are only needed to fill gaps left by deficits in raid makeup or player execution. No event in ToV/CoV/ToL require glyphs if everyone in the raid plays perfectly. All tanks can just rotate because all the backups are equally skilled, and with high DPS that don't fail mechanics you won't have penalty adds. But I think it's silly to pretended that we can't use glyphs to fill those gaps in our defensives for situations where we may need to tank for 20 minutes straight. Gaining enough AAs to pop a few dragon glyphs per raid night is trivial. I expect to go through 7+ per night of progression.
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    Who said you cant? No me. I'm saying to the Devs, not you, that glyphs are not part of class or event design. They are a pay-to-win mechanic.
  16. Szilent Augur

    Ozon likes this.
  17. Warpeace Augur

    That's not right even if I disagree with their heavy use to beat content now. I am not a fan of the best defensive ability in the game being an expendable AA or loyalty reward and should be baked into the classes and actually reduced in its efficiency, its just OP as it has been.

    The one thing they do favor is people with more play time to refill the AA bank.
  18. Triconix Augur

    I don't agree they are P2W, but there is no denying they are overdone. Raids are absolutely tuned around the usage of expendable glyphs and that's awful design.

    They are too available, too overused, and too powerful. They are easily better than any defensive ability than what any of the three archetype tank classes get natively, which makes absolutely no sense seeing how it's globally available to every class in the game. It's warrior dicho SFG Barry Bonds edition.

    The presence of it boils a warrior's supposed primary job (raid MTing) to 2.5 minutes every 10.5 minutes. It fundamentally kills an entire class and decades worth of development because it all took a back seat to the one click win button.

    If you're going to make a glyph as the most powerful tank ability in game available to all classes, you may as well make a glyph of every class' most powerful/unique ability, crank it up 12 notches, and make those available as well. I'll happy take a 250% lifetap glyph, a 25 million damage a tick glyph, a 500 million DD glyph, a glyph that turns all my hits into headshots, assassinates, decaps, or slays, a glyph that gives me 50k procs with a massive HOT component and 1000% increase to crit hit damage, a glyph that gives me more powerful versions fierce eye, quick time, vesagran at the same time while simultaneously putting bellow and funeral dirge on crack onto every target in my xtar, etc.

    Sounds absurd, right? Well that's about the absurdity of what Dragon Glyph is currently.
  19. Petalonyx Augur

    For a nonraider trying to gear up, dragon glyph can be a critical tool to help down difficult named mobs and reach new gear levels (moreso in hard expansions like TBL). It does not feel broken to those folks.
  20. Triconix Augur

    That's exactly what makes it broken. Instead of glyph, legitimate class/archetype abilities should be developed that successfully accomplish your goal.
    Allayna, Warpeace and Riou like this.