Beimeth, wondering if there is an inaccuracy here on the dodge rate, and then on the shield block rate as a result, should you not sustract the numbers of parry before calculating the dodge rate ? So shouldn't it be 28 / (966 - 120) = 28 / 846 instead of 28/966 ? and then shield block rate = 6 / (846 - 28) = 6 / 818 instead of 6 / 938 ?
On the bolded part, I found a more recent dev post about the impact of Luck on dodge, I didn't understand it though even if he gave an example https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/illusions-benefit-neza-10-dodge.246757/ post number 6
I understand it just fine, but we don't know what what the values are for luck, we don't even have a guess, so there is no way to include it in the calculations. Even if we did know, they didn't implement it correctly. By having it multiply in Step 5 the value is then divided by 45 afterwards. So, to use Niente's example: You have a 50% chance to get a lucky bonus. If you get the lucky bonus, it adds 10-25% to step 5 result. Step 1 = unknown, but let's assume 50. Step 2 = 2502 Hagi / 25 = 100 Step 3 Min(100, 50) = 50. Step 4 = 489 + 100 = 589 Step 5 = 589 + (489 * 114) /100 = 563 Step 5.3 = 563*1.25 = 703 Step 6 = 563 703 / 45 = 12 15 Step 7 = 12 15 + (100 - 50) = 62 65 (Chance to Dodge). Step 8 = Rnd(1,100) if (roll <= 62 65) then dodge. Step 9 = If Step 8 is dodge, roll strikethrough. Assume strikethrough is something like 75%. If I have a 62 65% chance to dodge, and a 75% chance of a strikethrough that means there is 46 48% chance to strikethrough out of 100%. So: (100-62 65 ) = 38 35% chance NOT to dodge, + 46 48% chance to strikethough = 84 83% chance I will be hit, 16 17% chance I will successfully dodge and not take damage. And that is a BEST case scenario, there is 1) a 50% chance you won't roll luck at all, and 2) if you do roll, it's a random 10-25% (17.5%) multiplier and 3) those are made up numbers and not real numbers and I assume they are higher than reality based on parses I've seen.
I was trying to illustrate the point that even best case scenario luck rolls for defense is pretty pointless. Also: We don't know what the real numbers are for lucky defensive rolls. We know what they are for spell crits because those are easy to parse: You either crit or you don't. If you crit you either roll luck or you don't. We can calculate the average % chance to roll for luck (first roll) by doing: Total Crits = Total Hits - Non-crits. Lucky Crits = Total Crits - Non-lucky Crits. %Chance of Lucky Crit (Relative) = Lucky Crits / Total Crits. %Chance of Lucky Crit (Absolute) = Lucky Crits / Total Hits. Now, rolling to see if you get lucky isn't a single value but a range. Doing the above gives us the average, but not the min/max values. Of course, we would want the average anyway. For the Lucky Damage Bonus (second roll) it's just a matter of removing any random focus effect so each spell hit is a fixed amount, then casting enough spells that you cover the full range of the random bonus. This gives the min/max values for the damage bonus, and you just average those. It is harder to calculate for defensive rolls. It isn't impossible, but it would take a lot of time and I haven't personally tried it yet.
Hello all, as I don't know if Yashna about his parses HSta VS HAgi VS HDex, I decided to test a HAgi set up versus my usual HSta one. I swapped most of HSta type 5 augs to some HAgi ones. I wanted to test the impact on average hit / max hit, miss %, overall hit % and dodge numbers. That did give me : + 672 HAgi, + 200 HDex, +37 mod 2 avoidance, + 33 mitigation AC, + 559 avoidance AC. And in counterpart : - 914 HSta, - 16 k HP I then calculated average numbers for HSta set and HAgi set for a few ToL raid bosses. For example, I took 2 parses of the boss under HSta set, and did calculate the average of both. I did the same under a HAgi set. I took also the time to sustract the impact of invul discs, especially Fortitude and Flash of Anger, on misses, parry and riposte. The biggest impact is Fortitude which produces around 40 misses. To make a basis comparison around similar, I tried to have an around similar number of attemps of the mob. Even if these fights durations aren't long, I'm using the same mitigation tool set in the same order I push them, be it under HSta set or HAgi set, so some differences might be explained by the Heroic choice. Even if I know this won't replace a long parsing fight, which would be the best thing to eliminate any variance, I'm not going to tank for 24 hours straight a ToL raid boss =) I'm going to post a few results soon, and other ones to come in next weeks.
Here are the results on The Primal Vampire and Zelnithak. These targets are good candidates to parse, because the tank stays most of the time static to one spot so lot of hits land, and also their main damage form is "Hit". The mob has various form of dmg, like "Hit", "Bashes", DD names, and I only took the stats for the "Hit" thing, provided by EQLogParser, to avoid skew numbers with DD damage, but also easier to search through logs I used the Search function of EQLogParser to sustract the tanking logs with lines "XXX hits you" or "XXX tries to hit you", which allowed me to calculate the Strikethrough rate by the same method Beimeth did : Number of Riposte with Strikethrough message / Overall number of Ripostes. The % obtained are also done folllowing Gameparse way, sustract number of miss, to determine number of Riposte, then sustract number of Riposte for Parry, etc. Sorry for the .... but cannot copy/paste an Excel file easily. so to make it readable more easily Comments on these results coming tomorrow The Primal Vampire.....Hsta....... HagiAverage hit..................66 696......65 110Max Hit......................140 868.....142 631% Strikethrough.......... 74,59%.....72,55%% Hits..........................64,62%..... 61,70%% Misses..................... 13,86%.....15,78%% Riposte.....................10,62%.....12,88%% Parry...........................9,52%.......9,14%% Dodge.........................4,38%.......4,99%% Block...........................0,69%.......0,20%% Defended..................23,20%......24,96%% Absorb.........................2,32%........2,38%Attempts...........................1 228........1 116 Zelnithak.........................Hsta....... Hagi Average hit...................62 295....60 893 Max Hit......................134 629.....135 767 % Strikethrough.......... 76,33%.....75,59% % Hits..........................64,45%..... 61,49% % Misses..................... 14,04%.....16,43% % Riposte.....................10,95%.....14,05% % Parry...........................9,09%.......9,31% % Dodge.........................4,84%.......4,11% % Block...........................0,79%.......0,00% % Defended..................23,58%......25,27% % Absorb.........................1,89%........1,54% Attempts...........................882.............827
Did you have any deaths during this testing? If no , I would wager you would also have 0 deaths with a H-dex set up, while also increasing dps.
Attempts are the number of Hits + Miss + rest of things, I tried to make an average of multiple parses to come with a closer attempt number between the 2 sets. As you can see, Strikethrough % is not identical, but this is due to parses being too short, but you can see that it's set at 75 %, like Beimeth has calculated. First of all, it looks like Average hit is roughly the same, maybe a small advantage to HAgi. Max hit always gives a small advantage from HSta. The next parses of other mobs will maybe see a trend there. Clearly it looks like under a HSta set, boss hits you more by 3 %, which is explained mostly by a better miss rate with the HAgi set by around + 2,5 %. This is in line with a big boost to avoidance AC, + 559, and with + 672 HAgi. The defended % is also at around 25 % in both cases, which is in line with the 75 % strikethrough. If you look into defended hits, there are some interesting things : The riposte % has increased by around 2,5 % with the HAgi set, which seems high given I "only" won 200 HDex swapping from HSta set to HAgi set. The parry % looks the same though, which is this time in line with a "only" + 200 HDex. The dodge % is strange imo. With much more HAgi, I would have expected to dodge more under the HAgi set, but as you can see this looks around the same rate. The Shield Block rate is interesting : it's the last thing checked, so the % of hits is very low, I tanked all these mobs with a shield each time, and as you can see nearly didn't shield block under a HAgi set versus a HSta set. This can probably be explained by the fact that more attempts make it to the Shield Block check under the HSta set, compared to the HAgi set, because these attempts have yet been negated by the riposte rate higher in the HAgi set for example. This could also explain why my dodge rate under HAgi is not higher, if these attempts have yet been negated by the earlier higher riposte rate. Parses of other raid mobs will come in the next weeks.
2 new raid mobs parses. I'm always the tank of one shadowstone grabber in Close the Gate raid. Netherbian Swarm Commander is the third raid boss of this expansion that is tanked mostly always at at static spot, the two others being Primal Vampire and Zelnithak with parses yet posted for these last two. A shadowstone grabber....Hsta....... Hagi Average hit.................. 57 485......54 489 Max Hit...................... 113 111.....105 541 % Strikethrough.......... 74,79%.....75,63% % Hits.......................... 64,71%..... 60,47% % Misses..................... 14,61%.....18,30% % Riposte..................... 11,56%.....13,51% % Parry...........................10,00%.......9,33% % Dodge......................... 2,95%.......3,98% % Block........................... 0,37%.......0,19% % Defended.................. 23,05%......24,85% % Absorb.........................1,55%........1,55% Attempts.......................... 369........ 370 Netherbian Commander....Hsta....... Hagi Average hit................... 64 261.... 66 354 Max Hit...................... 133 287.....142 264 % Strikethrough.......... 74,69%..... 75,33% % Hits.......................... 63,54%..... 62,74% % Misses..................... 14,59%..... 14,77% % Riposte..................... 10,99%..... 13,27% % Parry........................... 9,07%....... 9,08% % Dodge......................... 5,20%....... 4,22% % Block........................... 0,92%....... 0,00% % Defended.................. 24,00%...... 24,49% % Absorb......................... 2,11%........ 2,50% Attempts........................... 787............. 828 Grabber parse duration is much shorter than a raid boss one, so the parse variance must be higher. The trend of HAgi average hit being lower than HSta one is true on Grabber parse, but it's the other way around for Netherbian. Max hit trend being lower in the HSta set is true for Netherbian, but it's the other way around for Grabber. Strikethrough % is still at around 75 %, looking like it's the number for raid boss, but also raid add like the Grabber. The HAgi set is still showing a less % hit, ranging from 1% to 4 %. It's in line with the 3 % of the 2 former parses. It's mostly explained by a + 3,5 % miss percentage for the HAgi set. The weirdness comes form the Netherbian parse, where the miss % is only + 0,2 % for the HAgi set. The first 2 parses were showing a better miss % in the Hagi set of + 2% to + 2,5%. The other explaination of this less hit rate in the HAgi set comes overall from a higher % Defended in the HAgi set, ranging from + 0,5 % to + 1,7% compared to HSta. I find the riposte rate again quite high, + 2% for the HAgi set, when I only won 200 HDex. The parry rate is similar though, in line with only + 200 HDex won. Dodge rate is again weird, + 1% or - 1 % between the 2 sets, so much more HAgi / Avoidance AC is not showing more dodge, remember I won 672 HAgi and 559 Avoidance AC swapping from a HSta set to a HAgi set. Shield Block rate is still much higher on the HSta set, which as I said must be explained that hits that would have been defended have been negated before on the HAgi set, for example a hit shield blocked in the HSta set could have been riposted on the HAgi set. The higher defended % from the HAgi set comes therefore from the higher riposte rate from the HAgi set, which is kinda surprising as I said given i won only 200 HDex. I will post lastly 2 parses of 2 other ToL raid parses soon.
Dodge is checked after miss, riposte, parry/block, so it will never be a large number for a melee. Improving HAgi goes more to misses so that should reduce the attempts reaching dodge. The sum of missed + defended should be greater in either HAgi/HDex kits compared to HSta, at least up to the limit imposed by raid mob (75%) strike though. In other words, you cannot defend more then 25% of swing hits + your miss rate (14-18%).
Last 2 ToL raid bosses parses Keltakun.................Hsta............ Hagi Average hit.............71 002.......72 491 Max Hit.................143 687.... 148 709 % Strikethrough.... 72,69%..... 73,50% % Hits................... 64,47%..... 63,66% % Misses.............. 14,16%..... 16,02% % Riposte............. 11,21%..... 14,10% % Parry................... 8,88%....... 6,64% % Dodge................. 4,89%....... 3,80% % Block................... 0,77%....... 0,10% % Defended........... 23,63%...... 22,93% % Absorb.................. 1,69%........ 1,64% Attempts..................... 1 086............877 Kratakel................ Hsta............ Hagi Average hit........ ...58 504...... .58 550 Max Hit................130 941..... 138 513 % Strikethrough....71,00%.......75,85% % Hits................... 65,03%.......56,57% % Misses.............. 13,06%..... ...9,09% % Riposte............. 12,83%..... .12,34% % Parry................... 7,72%.......10,62% % Dodge................. 6,23%.........5,80% % Block................... 0,21%.........0,00% % Defended........... 24,73%.......26,19% % Absorb.................. 0,62%........5,28% Attempts..................... 735............ 571 Advantage to the HSta set for the max hit here, and tiny advantage on the average hit from the Hsta set. % hit on Kratakel is - 8,5 % from the HAgi set, looks kinda weird compared to other parses, which seem to be more ranging from 1% to 4% difference. This is due to a + 6 % better miss rate on the HAgi set, versus + 2% on Keltakun. For the rest, the same trends than listed before : Adding the riposte and parry %, i come with around 20 % on the HSta set, and 22 % on the HAgi set, so + 2 % mostly coming from the Riposte rate (5 parses of 6). Dodge rate and Shield Block rate overall being lower on the HAgi set compared to the HSta set, because some hits have been defended before on earlier checks. What is Absorb % btw ? It's coming from abilities ? Like Pain doesn't Hurt for Warriors "Absorb 100% of melee damage, max per hit = 4 000", these 4 000 are registered in the Absorb total ? In the last parse, it looks much higher on the HAgi set, but I don't think the Absorb % depends of your choice of Heroic.
Last parse I'm going to post : it's from one Night of Shadow Beta raid boss One warrior under a HSta set, another one under a majority of HAgi one. Remember that in beta, most of the fights are done under Tank Glyph and Defensive Discs (at least tanks in my guild do it), therefore there will be an impact on the various tanking stats. But both warriors have used the same count of glyph and defensive disc, so it doesn't skew parse results. The number of attempts of the mob on both tanks is also similar. Beta raid boss......... Hsta............ Hagi Average hit.............63 795.........61 615 Max Hit.................135 504.......137 326 % Strikethrough..... 74,70%........75,50% % Hits.....................62,29%....... 58,65% % Misses................18,93%........21,51% % Riposte.................8,68%..... ....9,38% % Parry.....................9,58%........10,02% % Dodge...................5,66%..........7,19% % Block.....................0,76%..........0,19% % Defended........... 22,70%...... ..24,47% % Absorb.................. 0,60%..........1,07% Attempts....................1 875...........1 739 There is here a slightly better average hit on the HAgi set, but on other parses it's the HSta set which has won. The average hit is therefore probably similar between the two sets. The max hit has always been slightly less on the HSta set, like in the 1000-2000 dmg less range. So overall on hits, the HSta set is probably slightly better, probably due to the shielding % higher on the HSta set. Strikethrough looks to be set at 75 % in the new expansion, which is going on the new trend of ToL with not any 100 % Strikethrough anymore. The % hit has always been less on the HAgi set, ranging from 1 % to 3,5 % less hits, coming mostly from a better miss rate, ranging from 0,5 % to 2,5 %., the rest coming from a bit better Defended % ? Inside the Defended stats, the riposte and parry rate look similar (+ 0,7 % riposte / + 0,44 % parry), but this time time there is little more dodge from the HAgi set, + 1,5 %. To counterpart this, the shield block % is +0,5 % better on the HSta set. To conclude on all these parses, I have been a HSta warrior, and I think I'm going to swap to HAgi this expansion. Main reason being that there is clearly a small miss % advantage from the HAgi set, on average + 1,5 % miss rate, and this small advantage has been shown on every parse posted, which translates also to a less hit % on the Hagi set, shown also on these parses. Was this miss rate advantage in place during former expansions with a 100 % heroic strikethrough ? I don't know. In other words, it's better to not be hit than being hit for 2 k less. The question is will the 16 k less HP makes me survive less on the big spell damage of raid bosses ? Will be interesting to check versus others warriors sticking to HSta. Regarding Defended %, it's believable that at most you can defend 25 % of the hits, and not more, whatever the Heroic choice set you choose. The distribution inside this 25 % will be slightly different though, depending of your Heroic choice. On average, you look for a like 10 % Riposte / 9 % Parry / 5 % Dodge / 1 % Shield Block distribution from the HSta set, and 11 % Riposte / 9 % Parry / 5 % Dodge / 0 % Shield Block from the HAgi set. a HDex set will push more toward the Riposte / Parry % and less on the Dodge %, and therefore doing a bit more DPS. These tests were done being mostly HAgi, and not full HAgi (not enough currency to swap completly from HSta aug to HAgi aug), so HAgi is probably a good middle ground here.
