Ragefire Exceeded Expectations - What Now?

Of course they can. They get paid to do their job. Not sure why you're pointing that out. The problem is when they are developing your quite frankly stupid policy, they're NOT fixing things that need fixed, they're NOT designing new content for the next campaign, they're NOT innovating, they're NOT automating (looking at you, hotzones.) I'd rather see innovation, patches that fix legit problems, implementing automation for ALL players than prohibiting people from playing how they choose.

BUT let's say for a moment we say to hell with the future of Everquest as a whole and take a look at your idea. First, it would require development. How would they stop it? Once they solved that problem, they'd have to write the code, test the code many times, insert the code, fix the code, deal with all the inevitable "why did I get banned???" tickets that are sure to occur when the code produces a false positive. And then they'll have to police the no-boxing policy... all this will magically happen when they don't even have the resource to police automation, which actually IS against the rules. And all of this for no other reason than a couple people are, one way or another, whatever illogical thinking, against boxing.

So to offset that resource cost, we'll have to increase the revenue. And since we're banning boxing and losing revenue, you're going to have to cough up some more real money. Let's say the average boxer boxes 3.5 accounts. So that's 15USD * 3.5, plus the offset implicit cost of taking away resources from the above mentioned areas... I'd say $65 a month for your single account to play on your special server is fair. Would you agree with that?

Not at all. I would not agree to that at all.
The average boxer boxes 3.5 accounts? Ok, great. Those 3.5 accounts can play on Ragefire, Zek, Xegony or any other server. They are not losing any revenue.

It's not my single account. It's the accounts of players of join Lockjaw because of no boxing allowed. It's the accounts of players who keep playing instead of quitting because they don't like the experience they've had with boxers on Ragefire. The boxers, as mentioned over and over, still get ever other server in the game (including a new TLP in Ragefire) AND can play on Lockjaw with any of their accounts (one at a time).

Lockjaw means an increase in revenue sources, not a loss.

Next up lets ban people who like to Solo!!!!

Your argument doesn't hold water because your assumptions don't follow logic. Assumptions aren't bad by themselves, but bad assumptions, by their nature, are bad. I am assuming that there's going to be the same average ratio of boxers to non-boxers on Lockjaw as every other server, or at the very least the same ratio as Ragefire. Maybe I'm way off base. It could be made up of 100% boxers or none at all. But I'm going to assume the average ratio.

YOU are assuming a negative is a positive. For each boxer that is banned from your server, an equal amount of accounts, single playing, will replace it. There's NO evidence that would happen.

As far as people quitting, that is going to happen no matter what. If it's not because of the boxers, it will be because the game is too easy. The game is too hard. The game is too old. The game isn't old enough. The number of who would stop playing explicitly because of boxing and ONLY because of boxing is negligible.

And again, you haven't solved your own created problem of how to overcome the resource gap of creating this new policy. You've already proven you can't put your money where your mouth is.

Also, let's ban groups and all classes. And let's only make one race, because fairness and jealousy. My warrior should be able to fully heal himself and nuke like a wizzy, after all. It's fine, though, it only has to be on one special server.

All the wasted space and breath arguing over somethings they won't be doing. They're not going to entertain any crazy ideas like allowing only 1 login per IP, take away /follow command, make it so you can only execute everquest.exe once (won't work anyway), or ban people who box. Roshen have stated their stance very clearly on the live streams, multiple times mind you. Their stance is very simple, "boxing is fine, botting is not cool".

If people are dead set on arguing over things they won't be doing or changing, then by all means go ahead. I just thought I'd help folks out so you can save some time and brain cells. Just know that you're clogging up space where people are trying to provide actual useful feedback that have to do with things that they would do, things they're working on (higher level instances), and realistic feedback on how they could improve.

Also... even if you use fuzzy maths to cheat the numbers... this still doesn't make sense.

This debate has de-evolved to a certain level that I'm not going to stoop to. Enjoy the trolling.

I'm not entirely convinced we're not the ones being trolled by the anti-boxer whiners. I reject the concept that anyone would say that in a serious manner. It's still never going to happen regardless if someone is serious about it or not.

And to be clear, I am talking about boxing and not botting. Even though it's against the rules, I wouldn't cry foul on someone who trained a group of AFK botters into a horrible, fiery death (though I wouldn't do it myself.)

Hmmm

It seems you did not read the post I quoted. The persons "solution" to boxing was to detect if more than 1 instance of EQ was running and prevent it. That would have impacted every single server, not just lockjaw, so no, those people boxing could not just box on another server. That would have cost DBG money.

Is there any chance we'll be allowed to character transfer from Ragefire, or will Lockjaw be a fresh start?
Maybe allow characters below lvl 5 or 10 or something -- something for the people that only got in for an hour or two the past week due to the queue.

That was one person's view on how to do it, not all of them nor the only solution (or best solution). If you read back through on this and other sections, I think you'll find that the majority of those in favor of one account at a time on Lockjaw are only advocating it for one server, not all of them.

On Holly's twitter, she is suggesting that transfers won't be allowed for about a week or so if they do allow them.

1. Kevin King ‏@kevinking0488 15h15 hours ago
   @TheWindstalker Are there going to be free character transfers? Or is it going to be completely fresh?
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Holly Longdale‏@TheWindstalker

@kevinking0488 we would probably hold off on transfers for a week so that server firsts come naturally

Why don't they simply *TRY* a no-boxing/botting server and see? What could it hurt to TRY it?

You will still get a large number of people from LJ to leave and get away from that morass that they don't want to be part of.

Roughly half the population wants boxing allowed (btw I am a long time 3-4 boxer) and half wants no-boxing.

Fine. Two servers. Two populations.

Simple. Done. Solved.

My question on this boxing issue is... How would the server know if you are boxing on one computer or say you have a family that plays and the IP address is showing the same household IP.. Does the server see the 192 IP or the ISP IP that you get? If this was the case a no Boxing server would mean only one person per house could play.. That would not be cool.

I've explained what it would hurt, in very real, non-trolling terms, right here: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...ctations-what-now.222498/page-20#post-3244565

The majority of the people proposing those ideas are obvious not computer techies. They are proposing "solutions" that either cannot work without impacting live, or that are trivial to circumvent by those of us that are technical.

The "same ruleset, nothing different" lazy approach to the second server speaks for itself. There's not much of an optimistic future that I can see. It'd make *some* sense if the servers were completely free to play.

Overpowered classes being encouraged to grief and kill-steal will get worse. I don't see them offering free transfers, either. They only released the server(s) for the purpose of making money and paying to transfer is perfect for them.

I for one would like to say Bravo to the idea of opening a new server, Lockjaw, with exactly the same ruleset as Ragefire.

I also say a big Bravo to expanding zone instancing and use of /pickzone. As a casual gamer who plays with family and friends, and rarely groups with people I do not know (but also rarely solos), it is exceedingly obvious to me that he zones on Ragefire that allow instancing are FAR more fun to play and FAR less aggravating. At a minimum, every single outdoor zone should be instanced. Without a doubt. Furthermore, I think every dungeon except SolB and Permafrost should be instanced as well. It will only improve the game by reducing contention, eliminating hate trains, camp-busting, KSing, and so forth. This is long, long overdue. In short, only keep the end-game zones for each expansion as singletons. Let everything else be instanced.

In year or two or three *if* the server pops drop to too low of a level, they can always be merged at that time, as long as they are on the same expansion. *if* the populations get too far out of whack and it is impossible for one server to catch up to the other, then *at that time* allow free server to server transfers between those two servers only (from Rage -> Lock, naturally). But arguing over this at this time is pointless, because we don't know what *will* happen.

Sure, is it possible that Lockjaw may become a ghost town and in 2 years is 2 expansions behind Ragefire? Sure, it's possible. But it's not likely. But instead of letting fear of the *potential* future problems dictate our decisions, let's instead address today's *actual* problems:

- Too many players for one server
- Too long to login through the queue (although the new queue is *awesome*)
- Too crowded for L25+ content

Adding Lockjaw (with the same ruleset as Ragefire) + expanding instanced zones for both is something that is very easy to do, requires no code changes (just metadata for the zone), and new hardware investment, which is more than justified by the recent influx of returning players. It is doable, it does not stretch or strain on resources, and it will solve the problems mentioned above. If it does create a problem in the future with population, we already know how to address that. Easy peasy.

Anybody who does not agree with this is likely trying to turn this idea of a new server into some sort of fascist view of what they want or need or how they deem is the right way to play, an as such, is frankly a jealous whiner-baby who just needs to realize that 1) life is not fair and 2) they can't control how others think and 3) the fact that different people play this game differently is actually a good thing, not a bad thing. As I have said before: get over yourself.

DBG: Good Job. Keep it up. Create the new server. Expand pickzone. You are on the right track. If you weren't, you wouldn't be having this problem.

Money talks.

Bullsh*t walks.

And all the whiners here, the anit-boxxers, need to stop whining, or just go away. You are a vocal minority, and boxing is part of EQ, always has been, always will be, and is a vital part of the revenue that allows all of us to keep playing, whether we box or not. It is best everybody keep that in mind.

Again, get over yourself.

Somewhat disagree with your first paragraph, especially the second half. They can't make it free because it takes resources away that live servers desperately need. The premium only model makes sense to help offset that. If you're suggesting the second server have a tweaked timeline (double/half the unlock time etc), then I can see where you're coming from and have no opinion. But to have new special rules.. nah. (Unless they copied and pasted code from Zek or FV, in which case it's just a copy and paste job, I'd assume. And they'd have to be modern FV rules, not old school FV rules... as much as I'd jump on the old school FV progression server in a heartbeat, it's just not viable resource-wise.)