I think druids should get a mana restore ability. But I also think he's right about devs giving an inch and asking for a mile (lol @ the beastlord in my guild who wants Imitate Death, Pet Feign and Willful Death aa's because the devs gave him FD). Don't think druids are asking for a mile though. I think a mana restore ability's reasonable.
Just because it is my opinion that druids shouldn't get a mana gaining ability doesn't mean it wont happen. My opinion means nothing when it comes to the devs vision for the game. The druid community wanting the ability would probably weigh more than my opinion than me not wanting it in all honesty, at least in my view. But what it really comes down to is what they see is best for the game.
Oh, so the point is people will ask for more if you give them anything new? So your platform is extreme stagnation, only upgrade current abilities for all the classes and never introduce anything new? Since this would cause anyone who received a new ability to ask for more new stuff on top of it?
Well, my post was jerkish, so I'm sorry for that. I just can't relate to why someone would jump in against this when, as others have said, the uniqueness ship has sailed. Druids are the only priest that has to deal with this burden, seems an awful thing to be class defining. Lore is easy- after years of hugging trees, druids are able to commune with nature and draw magical energies from the very earth (the Norrath? heh) itself.
problem was preincarnation was procing way too much. having it to be 40% proc only was already a huge one vs what it is atm...was not needed to have the buff removed as well...............
[38150/5129] Preincarnation Classes: DRU/254 SHM/254 Skill: Conjuration Target: Self Beneficial: Blockable Casting: 1s, Recast: 15s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 30m (300 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes 1: Cast on Death Save: Touch of the Divine I (60% Chance) 2: Cast on Death: Preincarnation Incarnation (100% Chance) Text: You appeal to nature for a second chance at life. Grants you a chance at a second life. If a second life is fulfilled, you will be invulnerable with little health for a short time. If you fall in battle, nearby group members will gain a chance at a second life. It is currently (PRENERF) 60%.... That's 3/5 deaths prevented. Once the change goes into effect, it will be 2/5 prevented. Hey, guess what? You still have Covenant of Spirit, and Second Chance from tribute. 8/10 deathblows you will STILL be invulnerable. Then you can cast your .5 second cast AA again. You remember to heal, because you need to heal to keep yourself alive. I am sure you will learn to remember to hit a .5 sec AA, because it will be necessary to still avoid 80% of all deathblows.
Probably just go back to headshotting on my ranger instead of beaming with my mage. I have a cleric too, I don't need any kind of lifetap to swarm. Though, I do have leechcurse since level 60, my breastplate since level 70, my epic since level 70, and my many ranks AA line that all allow me to do that were I so inclined. SB does it just as well. How do you think warriors and berserkers and rangers..... well, any melee with AA and good gear with a 2h swarms? I roll with the punches. I definitely won't threaten the man to cancel my subscription and say how wronged I am. Honestly though, nothing -worth- mass killing can be mass killed with swarming... since... you gotta get hit. Unlike beaming where you have 0 risk of dying unless you mess up royaly.
I like the ToTD cleric AA that is similar to this. A chance to save you from a death is nice. I still expect to die when things go bad. I expect to control agro when adds are at a raid, or depend on my fellow raiders to do their job or to kite myself. There is no issue here aside from people who abused it.
I think you have a way of putting words into peoples mouth, or are extremely passionate and sometimes get lost in trend of thought. He uses hyperbole to explain a point, which is true of human nature. His opinion is that he doesn't think druids should get a form of harvest. He isn't exclaiming that there should be complete stagnation. You're both using hyperbole, maybe you don't realize it. Personally, I think that druids should get some form of harvest. Lore wise, to me, it would make sense (they draw on the primal forces of nature to restore mana etc...). Using exaggeration to argue with exaggeration doesn't root the proceedings in reality, normally. It just moves the proceedings away from the original topic, which leads to flaming, and eventually it getting locked . Also, if (not just you, and back on topic) this nerf/change to preincarnation is causing raids to be much harder, or difficult within your own definition, then you might want to work out other things instead of relying on this ability for the success of your raid force.
Nothing like having a shaman keep an instance going while everyone frantically banners back and attempts to salvage what can't be salvaged, when it would be easier as well as faster to just skip the heroics and restart. Lets be realistic though. The nerf is not about that bit of raid strategy and most people are aware of the fact. Using the raid aspect of this as the main argument here is a straw-man at best, and you know it. This is just a part of the flavor of the month for nerfs, just like other abilities in the cross-hairs that got blatantly, very publicly misused and abused by morons who had more greed than sense. Granted, this isn't a carpet bomb approach but it is a part of it. Go visit CoB if you have any questions and see what is parked in the courtyard outside the administrative building. I don't think that gets into the exploit, as it runs far deeper than just that, but yah.
So you are not going to refresh a buff that has just saved you from dying? Not to mention this is an AA ability with a 1sec cast time, i.e can be used in between spell gem refreshes. /boggle.
Essentially your offtanks are going to have to get better at picking up adds. They have the tools to do so, and should be able to keep you alive in most situations. That should be the default, not relying on a buff to give them more time. When there is an issue with adds you still have the buff, you'll just have to recast it. The offtanks don't have the luxury of taking their time.
Druids are blowing this way out of proportion. It's a 20% reduction. And you guys are acting like the spell has been taken out of the game. It reminds me of the ENC thread about the mezz reduction. Honestly. Relating this to harder raids? That's a huge stretch. All this means is you need to be more careful in a group or raid setting. You can't rely on a fail safe DA when your HP hits too low. It still saves you. It really does. You just get saved less often. Oh well. Death happens. Then relating this to the mana gain ability you feel your entitled to? Please. Let's say you die on a raid. Most of the time Druids are in a caster group /tell Enc. 2nd spire/Robe click and C please /tell Cleric Mana please /Tell Necro in your group. Mana please Boom. 60% of your pool at least. Work together with others. You will be taken care of
Why should druids be the only casting based class that has to beg 3-4 other classes for mana after a rez? Please justify that.
Just a heads up. Unless you're raiding Velious or PoP... Necro mana feeds are useless and haven't been updated since Kunark. Their Mind Flay line is current, but not often something you can request instantly. It's a 60s recharge spell that most necros do not keep up at all. From my recollection enchanters ended up using their 3rd spire more often than 2nd for DPS increase... Because every class OTHER than Druids doesn't need the mana. What with the mana gain abilities every other caster gets. However I believe now that is stopping since their 3rd spire has so many stacking issues. Clerics/Beastlords are the only real ones to turn to for QM and FP. I guess Enchanter for 2nd Spire. But many times these classes use the abilities on themselves and aren't up when a Druid dies.
Clerics do not use QM on themselves as often as folks tend to say they do (and if they do, either they don't have VP yet or really need to learn better mana management and/or get all the itemization options available). For enchanters - I only have 1 enchanter in our raids who is a DPS enchanter, the others generally are using 2nd spire I believe. (And we run with 3-4 enc per raid).
Rangers are still pretty hosed on mana. With full raid gear and buffs we shouldn't run out during a fight, but if we die we're pretty much hosed.
Yes, for some reason there is some lore I must have missed on nature based classes and their complete lacking of being able to regain mana via active mana regen.
Well. You would be wrong on all points. But that's fine. An enchanter using Third spire, should be slapped. Even in a DPS scenario, 2nd Spire mana return offers more to an ENC then the small Crit mod that a 3rd would grant. Plus between CI and glyphs. No Enc ever will search for a Crit mod. Trust me. I'm a DPS ENC. In terms of mana return, ask a cleric they have AAs for that. Mod rods. Paragon. 2nd Spire. Mind flay. Any caster that watches a Druid die is gunna do what they can to get you on your feet. For example. If my Druid healer dies. I pop 2nd, Robe and toss them C ASAP. As well as aura swap to mana return.
