My thread on this issue was removed because other people added in discussion about an exploit. I was told it is against forum rules to discuss exploits. Therefore, do not discuss exploits in this thread, thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know if SOE has thought this out but this just makes every raid much harder. Not just druids but shaman also will die more. On my guild's raids, I'm healing both my group and the main tank(s). This makes me an aggro magnet. The tanks can usually hold aggro, but when I heal a caster or melee group member, the mob will leave them and come for me. Often, Preincarnation was all that kept me alive. Now the druids and shaman will be dying more often. Without druids and shaman healing their groups, the groups will die. Now the entire raid is suffering. So the result of this nerf = raids much harder. So, SOE, did you really realize this would increase the difficulty of all raids when you did this or were you just deciding that druids and shaman weren't dying enough? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Just to add, I'm not whining about the nerf. I'm just pointing out that it has wide ranging effects upon raids that I do not think were properly considered.
Honestly, and I do hope they reconsider the nerf because putting "1 charge" on the preincarnation buff really was not necessary, merely reducing the chance to a lower number (such as the number it was at prior to Call of the Forsaken) would have been sufficient to nullify any concerns with the ability. I'm hoping they either re-instate its ability to proc multiple times or add more counters to it so it can at least proc a few times. I'd honestly rather have a death save ability that proc'd say 40 percent of the time as many times as possible while the buff is on me than have a much higher chance to proc but have the buff fade after it proc's once. I'll likely end up forgetting to refresh this buff after the nerf since it only has a one time death save attached to it.
Something that was asked on the other thread (sorry don't remember who) - to this exact point was they hadn't seen any druids drawing aggro from simply healing in years. Loose mobs (meaning tanks didn't do their job initially) yes, AE's yes, but aggro no.
I do not take aggro from tanks unless the raid has unusual aggro wiping. But all kinds of adds appear during some raids and run around. Yes, I know it is the job of tanks and/or chanters to lock them down. But that takes time. Sure, I know that maybe that's the idea behind the raid, to challenge them to lock them down before everyone else dies. But my point, which keeps getting lost, is that this is a change. A large change. When the raids were created and beta tested, we had Preincarnation one way, now it has changed. The difficulty of the raids has changed. They are harder. Regardless of what people might think (oh, they were too easy before, etc.) this change hurts raiding guilds.
Sincerely doubt any raid in the history of the game has ever been tuned for or around preincarnation. Will it make raids more difficult? Not at all, considering most guilds don't have druids and shamans chain-dying or apparently tanking for the duration of the event. This isn't because they have preincarnation...it's because a lot of healers prepare for heavy AEs and often raid with competent tanks. I'm not in a raiding guild or anything though, what would I know about it. Changes/nerfs suck but most players eventually adapt to these things. What you are doing here is trying to blow the issue entirely out of proportion, I am not sure this helps your cause. Maybe instead of claiming the sky is falling, offer a real solution. -- Falos had the right idea with leaving the lower % chance and having counters.
The raids were harder already. The change was just 1 step too much, imo. The 1 charge wasn't needed. When there is an event with swarms of mobs, its not uncommon for non tanks to get hit occasionally. Constant healing is what causes the aggro on newly spawned mobs. HoF funness rings a bell.
I wasn't aware that pointing out an issue was "blowing it out of proportion" or "claiming the sky is falling". I suppose it is my fault for not properly wording my posts to subtly make my point. I am not claiming this is the end of the world or it will mean guilds will suddenly all fail every raid. I am saying this is a change. And I think it is an important change, that makes raids harder. Offer a real solution? I thought that was the point of my creating this thread, to ask people to offer some real solutions. Because I can't think of everything myself. In fact, I often tell SOE that they should realize the power of using thousands of players to give them advice on how to do things. Because no matter how smart you are or how well you know the game, having many people looking at a situation usually gives more answers than one person.
I personally didn't feel the change was as bad as its made out to be. Why is one charge bad? It goes off you recast it. Sure it takes a second from healing but it keeps you from running outta mana from being dead.
It may be a tad more difficult for a druid, yes, but to claim it will hurt raiding guilds is reaching a bit. Preincarnation will remain a "save" on the off-chance you do end up dying (or were going to die). I do not think it was ever meant to permanently prevent death so you or your guild can continue doing the wrong thing nor do I think it should be your only way to "stay in the game" in a raid situation. I believe it's universally agreed that druids need a way to harvest or create mana after a death, which is the heart of the issue here. From a lore standpoint, it seems like a no-brainer that druids should be able to gather energy.
Not universally agreed, I think its a horrible idea and how does it fit lore at all? Every class should not get every ability. After mana, mez will be wanted too.
Mana, in most fantasty settings, is a natural resource. Druids are attuned to nature, how does that not make sense? Wanting mez too? How on earth did you even make that connection
Why specifically should druids be the ONLY casting class that must beg others for help after a rez? I want justification other than the lame duck " every class should not get every ability". When you wait until every single class that casts as their primary action has the same game changing ability other than 1 to trot out that excuse you are waaaaayyy too late.
I think you should have a discussion with your raid leaders about raid strats. It sounds like your problems stem from tanks slacking and your chanters having trouble getting the mobs locked down. Your raids are harder because you're not working together as a raid team. Not because preincarnation's getting nerfed.
I don't disagree that it is a change, but even in beta, it was pointed out repeatedly by many different players in the threads about the high % given (without even a public recognition post that it stacked with 2nd chance, etc.). I'm not sure I would have made it a single proc then remove itself (like SoE did), so I do think that could be contested. But a change was most definitely needed on the AA and expected even. Difficulty of raids aren't harder IMO, so put me in that camp. What's harder is how some people are saying it will affect their raids (and more folks saying it won't affect them). So it's not an actual fact; will it require some adjustments perhaps by those who feel it's too harsh? Yes.
Mez was just an extreme statement basically saying that when u give someone and inch they want a mile.
Did clerics heavily lobby for a mez when they received 2 versions of QM? Did Necros heavily lobby for a new mez to go with the new DB? Your statement about people wanting mezzes after receiving a mana increasing ability is unfounded.
Same statements can be said all around in different aspects. Do you feel melee shouldn't get the melee slow in rez effects. Judging off rough numbers off trash where I was alive on the first spawn and then had died and went right in on the next spawn my dps went down roughly 93%. So because wizards get mana instantly and suffer from no spell slow from rez effects should melee be asking for no melee slow? I don't think that should happen either just as I don't think druids should get a mana gathering ability. And then there is the so called lame duck reason as you put it of not all classes should get everything but I don't believe that's a lame duck reason.
Was an over exaggeration to make a point. But apparently that's lost on some people. Never said anyone asked for a mez.
