Except the guy you're quoting isn't even an sk. He's got both classes and has been trolling every thread for days saying he wants to decide which toon to play or some nonsense. Yet the same half dozen warrior trolls are foaming at the mouth at everything he's saying. Please provide posts of sk mains saying they want and deserve to tank like a warrior. (Hint: we don't, and most of us have actually said we think these improvements went too far)
In response to Gnomeland, due to charm and often mez, enchanters have often had different roles in raids than in groups (look at all of Temple of Veeshan lol.. you don't go to a group and just cast buffs and die, even in Velious). In response to Dre, these guys rolled characters that they expect to be able to tank mobs. Yeah, they shouldn't be as good as a warrior, at tanking. Yeah their healing and tapping abilities have historically turned them into supertanks once group content becomes trivial enough, and makes warrior look silly in the same situations. Yeah there was a point in time when they could tank raid mobs, and then it seemed like it was just flat out better to have much fewer warriors and more paladins (notice how I'm not saying shadowknights.. my impression that it was primarily paladins). Personally I'm ok with knights being able to tank to some degree on raids. I think that they shouldn't be as good at it as warriors. I've played an enchanter for a long time, and I remember a lot of events where an sk was really good to have around, but there are also a lot of events where they're just 2.0's with legs. I just want to remind you that 2.0's came out a really long time ago. If you want to design a whole new aspect for knights on raids, it should be some kind of super kite mobs that run faster and jump higher than regular mobs. You can take advantage of the fact that enchanters move so slow that you might as well make their next 1hblunt a literal walking stick, and clearly define this element of crowd control as an sk role. Outside of that, give them a good way to replenish a fair amount of someone's stamina. Or hey, just turn harmtouch into manaburn and give them selos. Selos fixes everything, right druids?
Well then, feel free to ignore the last 20 seconds of the giant rolleyes smilie vomiting smaller versions of itself as an apology.
The current implementation of manaburn pre and or post nerf actually seems like something that would have been a great thing for sks. Raid adps that's significantly impactful and has very limited stamp at the group game. Why the game's premiere raid dps class needed it/got it is beyond me. Clearly /tinfoilhatblameBeimeth
I'm not sure what you're looking to accomplish. I understand that one person's opinion does not represent the sentiments of an entire class. But there are some long-standing issues here that aren't being addressed. My suggestion is that a volunteer to champion these might be more constructive toward that end, even if those efforts may ultimately be in vain.
No one can represent the Shadow Knight class because the Shadow Knight class is actually made up of thousands of individual voices, each of which have different opinions on what their class ought to do. You are no more representative of them than I am, but from a game design perspective, what I said is fact, and facts cannot be disputed. I consider myself more objective than most simply because I can easily switch classes and am not especially attached to my characters. Nonetheless, I have certain views on game design principles that I am not so willing to sacrifice. This is one of them.
There are no long standing issues that aren't being addressed. There was a design flaw that didn't get addressed for a year, but now has been, although not in an ideal way, because the ideal way would've been to remove Defensive Proficiency, which was the start of all the tank balance issues from 2014 to now.
And game design efficiency argues against them, just as it does Warriors who support their view. Again, we don't need to pretend to represent anybody here. We could just talk about the game design logic. What benefit to the game is there to force a role into raids just so Shadow Knights could keep themselves busy while not being a tank? The class was designed to tank. It was not designed to perform support roles, and so new abilities would have to be added just so they and only they could perform them. In which case, suddenly you have a class, 95% of whose abilities are for being a tank, being forced into a role in which it's making use of 5% of its abilities, just so raids don't replace them all with Warriors. That is terrible game design. Instead, they could just make Warriors and Knights all viable end game tanks, and then address Paladins having twice the utility, and end up in the same place, but without having to force classes to perform roles that they were not designed to perform.
I do not play a ShadowKnight but I'm aware they can use DA hammer now. What's so hard to imagine an SK RTing while the pallies splash?
So it's funny the assumptions made. I am of the opinion that it's probably better for the game overall that the main tank role be shared, but that the multitudes of problems in the prior game that warriors accepted for this status needs to be addressed. So many basic downward scaling survival and utility issues would need to be made, but it's probably right to do so. Warriors should be equipped with tools that make the class fun to play throughout the game, not as a series of sacrifices that are made time and time again in order to justify boss mob exclusivity. It's better to have a bigger tank pool than just one class, especially one as horrible to play as the warrior class. If there were an overall power balancing that caused warriors to be as strong throughout the game as pretty much all other classes, then they could justify the sharing of the boss tanking spot, and it would open options for guilds to use the archetype rather than a single class. There are a ton of things that could enable this through melee, however I don't believe that the dev staff has the vision to do so, or even the understanding of just how horrible the warrior class is to level up and play in today's EQ. So they'll open up the boss tanking role, and leave the classes so imbalanced through the rest of the game that they deserve an award for getting away with letting a class rot.
You guys are thinking about this all wrong. You are saying pallys should get their heals nerfed if they become stronger tanks. Why not do what countless other games do with this dilemma, and use stance toggling. Drop pally healing effectiveness by x amount and increase their defensive capabilities. or Drop pally defensive capabilities by x amount and increase their healing ability then Allow them to swap stances. You could even push it further and increase pally healing ability to the point they become a viable alternative healing class in heal stance, at the cost of most of their defensive capability. Imagine that, a cool but versatile class that can fill either of the roles those of us in less than optimum raiding guilds need desperately from time to time. Why do pallys need to be just tanks?
The introduction of stances for knights was a bit baffling, mainly because they are exactly the same as the warrior. I don't know if a lot of the people for this change were mainly group tanks or what, but both knights could tank end-game raid bosses if they wanted. Knights did not NEED the tank stances, DPS stance going to a SK I can get (DPS TANK FTW!) Warriors being designed to tank main raid bosses the best makes sense, knights being good enough to take over if the poo hits the fan makes sense. Knights being equivalent or perhaps even better than the warrior does not make sense. Anyone who feels that knights could not tank end-game raid bosses for a decent amount of time is wrong and were most likely faced with bad healers, bad debuffers or maybe they're just bad to start with. As soon as they create the problem with stacking on the knight vie discs with the stances, things will be back to normal. The fact a knight could be rocking 65% mitigation for over a minute and then 50% mitigation for another 2 is ridiculous. Last Stand for warriors is supposed to be the best mitigating discipline in the game and it's 45% and lasts 3 minutes. Assuming the knight discs lasted their full time, they would be at better mitigation for the same amount of time. You already gave them a form of Flash of Anger, might as well buff Guardian up to 45% next to "balance" us out again!
This could absolutely be a tanking role. Example - granting unique resistances to certain event mechanics would favor SK's as tanks. I'm not sure how you'd address this without expanding Warrior/SK raid utilities. We certainly don't need to have Paladins become 3rd class tanks. So we're pretty much back to asking what that looks like for SK's. The path for Warriors is clear.
Knights mitigation discs are limited by an amount of hp it can absorb and then poofs. The trick to pally mitigation isn't in the discs (although they do play the "major" role in it), it is in the impose and protection spell lines. Whys that cecil? Because dear reader, those mitigations last as long as you keep recasting them and have mana.
I completely forgot about those Cecil! So paladins can permanently rock 55% mitigation basically. And then it goes up with Mantle and Armor, So the MTO for raids is going to be paladins first for sure!
Now you think the pally is not "Balanced" because their advantages were "shared" with other tanks? The whole while, Pally's and Sk;s now have AS HIGH of mitigation as Warriors , yet Thats thee only trick in the warrior hand book .. Thats now shared Interesting .. Knights seem like whiny crybabies to be real witcha
