Official Ragefire Rotation

You are in the wrong. An alphabetical rotation list was not hammered out during the meeting. It was hastily put together last minute and was/is a oversight.

Another oversight was not discussing the order at the meeting, hell , that was a long meeting!

Correct and I agree with you.

Currently I have not seen this rules in my content agreement when I sign up.
Be in a guild and even agreed a rotation on boss in order to get acces of the high level contents are not inclued in my contract.

This rotation had to be done because 2 guilds get all the hight targets for themself.
Now it s exactly the same except they are 12.
My point of wiew is that rotation is here to prevent that.
Not to encourage some few guilds to share the high level content betwen them.

The fact is that pick-up raids are far more fair:
Because they are open to all players without discrimination -except the level- and because they dont have the possibility to camp the targets.

In my opinion the guilds should be restrict to the rotation and pick-up should be allowed all the time.
And of course the raid pick-up should be a real one not a single guild hide behind it .
The loot should be roll by the advanced system.

in my reply i never spoke to the LIST of guilds as you put it. i was speaking to the rotation document as a whole. please point me to where in my post i commented on that, other than to say if you were at the meeting how could you have missed this. and if you were not there, then why not as it was open to any guild that wished to be there.

I agree it was an oversight but if you would ACTUALLY read the crap they wade through to get to the point of the most of them sitting down, they did a damn good job getting what they have. I also have said that it is not perfect but I also have said there is room to improve and ways to improve.

case in point: for over 10 hours they still tabled a few things to be addressed the next meeting, and then they looked forward and said hey lets have a meeting so that we can be ready for kunark releasing. I challenge you to go some where and take over 10 groups of people who have their own wants and on the first REAL meeting, come up with a structure in which to make things work and then come up with a rotation for them to do something and do it perfectly on the first time.

There are still items that need to be worked out.

As everyone knows, we had a meeting on Friday the 7th that did not go so well. What everyone may or may not be aware of, is that fact that we had exactly one day before the next meeting was scheduled (Sunday the 9th) to compile feedback from 11 different guilds (each with their own unique requests), and create a customized system (Council) to be tailored to those needs.

Things were brought up after the (9 hour) meeting on Sunday that DO need answers, including the rotation order. Alphabetical was the best we could come up with, without the permission of the Council. We cannot / will not make or modify any rules or modifications without the Council's consent. We meet again Sunday to hopefully wrap up any urgent needs.

so do you not see how the council and rotation are separate? though if on the rotation you are part of the council. and there is nothing to prevent you from forming a guild, qualifying for either one or both and joining the rest there.

as to you're assertion that all other raids should not be backed from a guild. alright lets look at that. who gets all the hate stones and fronts that cost. for instance you get 6 groups each needing transport to hate. that's 6 times about 52plat.. thus about 300 plat. how will you divide up the loot that you get to cover each person that spent plat to get those 6 stones? how about any gems used up by clerics for symbol? or chanters for runes? if a guild backs it, then these costs are assumed and your participation covers your part of the cost and gives you a chance at loot.

I would like to point that just because you are on the rotation, does not mean you need to be on the council. Council membership is based on having the minimum number of characters plus attending a meeting. If a guild on the rotation never wanted to attend a meeting they would not have to, they would stay on the rot, they could submit things for the council to discuss, but would not get a vote (because no one is present) If their guild is already a member, they would abstain.

I guess that is true... i just realized that the council requires a number of raiders, but to be on the rotation all you have to do is down a gatekeeper, this might be able to be done with less than is required to be on the council.... but though you are right most will not do it that way because they would want to have a say, but I can see that someone might not want to deal with the politics. interesting thoughts

Keep in mind that, as Roshen said, we have a living document with a method to make changes. If something is weird, inconsistent, or not working, we can fix it.

thus why i do not think anyone will want to be on the rotation but not with the council.

Exactly, meaning over time everything is subject to change, this is what the majority was in favor of and overtime I'm sure it will be tweaked to better represent the needs of the participants. I may think some of what was agreed to was silly and one sided, but if most the guilds are happy with thing, and no capable guild is being restricted more than any other, more power to em for coming to an agreement for now.

That s details.
Rules can come after ... or not.
Personatly i wont forced a cleric a wiz or ench to used a component.
If they dont want to they just lower their chances of sucess.

At the end of the day these targets are highly sought after as you can obviously tell by now. If you're that concerned with doing pugs than the best thing I can say is get your pugs together during a FFA time slot and give it hell.

Why pick-up raids should be restricked to FFA slot?
A pick-up raid is more representative of the community than a guild.

Explain me why a guild should get more time (guild slot + FFA slot) than others limited to FFA part.

With all due respect your concern for pick-up raiding is rather irrelevant at the moment, as nobody has really put together any pick-up raids for raid targets on the rotation (CT/Inny/Naggy/Vox). The only pick-up raids that have been attempted have been fear or hate clears.

If you truly are attempting to be someone who puts together pick-up raids, then I'm sure the other guilds on the server would be more than happy to listen to any input you have about the rotation and consider it. There's no reason you should be able to ignore the rotation because you are a group of unguilded raiders, or raiders in multiple guilds. However, there is also no reason why the rotation should ignore you if you are able to put together raids that are capable of downing the targets on the rotation.

But as of now there is no pick-up raiding going on so you're bringing up issues that don't currently exist. It's not overly productive.

Because they are a guild. Pickup raids will happen eventually, but when they do, guilds shouldn't have to lose their spots in a rotation because some random unguilded or small guilded players can do a pick up raid. They already only get a few kills a week in a rotation. If a pug wants to kill a raid target than it should be during FFA time slots. Just my opinion. As others have said, voice your opinion with the council.

It really feels like someone is just trying to punch holes it this. We got a rotation right now that is working, people seem happy. There has been zero effort to pug raids by anyone on our server, why is it being dressed up as a dire must solve now problem?

Pretty much. Until they actually get a pug raid force together on a FFA day, if I were the council I wouldn't waste my time with it. They have enough to deal with when it comes to the actual guilds.

Naggy downed by TL bout 10 mins ago. EU window.

I'm reading what you're saying, but, with all due respect, the burden of explanation is really on you. I'm not even necessarily in disagreement, in fact on back-era content I'd really like to see a provision for open raiding. However, it's not good enough for me to just want to see that.

You have twelve guilds on a council making decisions about these matters, and a system already exists. If you want it changed, you need to come up with a convincing gameplan.

I don't think anyone is saying that open raiding shouldn't be allowed. What we are asking you is: how are you proposing that be integrated into the current system? And the question needs to be answered from both a practical and an administrative perspective.

So, come up with something solid, and present it.