Should be an innate proc of Dual wield prof IMO. If it wasnt it would increase viability of 2hander for burns and the bridge the intended gap between 1hb/shield and dw
HH proc is a powerful and cool ability - I would absolutely HATE for something that awesome to be tied to a single stance.
Tie a minor HHE buff to a offhand proc for sustained DW usefulness, and put a more potent HHE component on Vehement Rage that works with any stance (Vehement Rage is in dire need of a buff anyways.)
Eh the MNK/ROG HHE fire passively as a proc regardless of what's equipped. I'd rather stay consistent. Vehement Rage could get some sort of crit mod or skill attack proc.
That's exactly why it should be. If the goal of DW is sustain and 2hander is burn you don't want your burn to be balanced around inconsistent HHE.
If the goal is 2H = burn then even inconsistent HHE is better than absolute reliance on bards for quicktime. 2H coming ahead in burns naturally is ok but the more we pidgeonhole "this stance = this role" the less flexible we become.
Then you will hold yourself back because most of the time you don't have the adps that other melee have. The reason that pallies have jumped so much and sk, albeit not as much, is because we are more self reliant, where warriors are not. Putting your dps in your own hands even to a small degree (ie others adps will be better and not stack when in a group with those classes) makes every aspect of the game better for you. The problem is stances are here, and unlikely to go away any time soon, therefor we have to work within the constraints that the dev crew want to put us in. You want DW to have a place, work on one and quit saying it is pigeon holing yourself because its not doing that anymore than what they are already doing to you.
I disagree with your supposition that we can't be self-reliant while remaining melee-focused. Locking it to a refresh ability makes it burn-only. No thanks. Even if your implication is it can be both (which I'd find to be unlikely to be implemented) I'd still prefer it be stance-neutral and naturally favor DW vs being forced into that stance or VR. Tying HHE to DW would hold us back in the long run. How do you like Screaming Axes?
Never lands unless solo, proc rate is abysmal and the effect is pathetic; other than that it is great.
Precisely why I want to see the Warrior HHE done right the first time if it gets done. The Mnk/Rog version is awesome.
You have to do some reading between the lines there. Knights split their DPS between melee and spells, whereas Warrior DPS is melee only. If Knight melee contribution is lower than that of Warriors, then it's quite appropriate for their melee burn abilities to retain certain self-reliance advantages Warriors do not. And a big part of that advantage is awesome synergy with self melee burn + caster ADPS.
No actually I am talking from the point of my zerker. Until the new dicho discs, without adps in group or raid my dps was abysmal at best. I would love to be less self reliant on others, but that is the price we pay it seems. Screaming axes is a joke compared to the others, and I don't want to see that for wars, but that doesn't change my stance or what I said. If you give it to all stances then you did nothing to differentiate DW stance, which is something I was under the assumption that people wanted. Am I wrong that people have come to wanting SB to be raid/named tank, DW trash tank+ sustain dps, and 2h to be burn + higher when you have more support? Also locking it into a refresh ability does not make it burn only. You should be doing all your clicks as you can (waiting minor amounts of time to maximize clicks together cause of timers) to bring your sustained up as high as possible because that is what really matters. only time you should be saving anything for a burn is if the named is already up and you are having issues killing it for whatever reason and you need everyone to burn it before fort fades. What do you mean by this, no one is suggesting giving you spells. Or are you under the assumption that AA are not melee focused?
Is that why you mentioned Knights, stances and included the word "we"? I'll admit I read VR as Valorous Rage (which has HHE) when it looks like you meant to imply Vehement Rage, but that was many posts back. From the perspective of a Berserker, I can absolutely see where it would be advantageous to put HHE on Vehement Rage since you have it as well. Also it does not consider that Warriors are tanks and adding DPS to an ability that limits our ability to tank is not ideal. (see Offensive disc, 2h prof debate). It accomplishes both goals of raising overall DPS, differentiating Warrior DPS from Knights and raising DW higher than the rest, as DW would naturally get an additional 50% more HH procs when dual wielding. This is part of a much larger debate outside the scope of this thread. For now it'll suffice to say, not always. I mean it depends on which way the dev team takes us. You suggest the Knight way is better. I think Knights have other factors that make that comparison apples to oranges. Another perspective we're not considering is that of the ADPS class. I personally think DPS support remaining meaningful is a good thing, since EQ is a multiplayer game after all. Maybe not ideal for all, but an innate HHE proc is the best fit for the most situations.
You obviously are stuck on the untied to stance hhe effect, therefore we are just different in views. You wont get more procs from dual wielding they set it to ppm, will be roughly the same for all stances. Another perspective we're not considering is that of the ADPS class. I personally think DPS support remaining meaningful is a good thing, since EQ is a multiplayer game after all. [/quote] Look at rogues, they have many tools that make them a better sustain class than zerkers, one is that they have discs to fill in voids with less adps, and shorter reuse discs. This has nothing to do with war vs knight, and you should get that out of your mind now, it has to do with the game mechanics and how ADPS and effects work. If you give a hhe to all stances, it just keeps them the same. If you want overall dps gains in every stance ask for that, then go for HHE on DW to give it some flair. But as I can see you are not in the camp that thinks there should be differences between the stances. So I will drop it as it doesn't effect me at all.
Is that how it works for Monks? I think we've gone far enough down this rabbit hole and we'd be best served backing out some.
That is how all procs work. Isn't that what this thread is about is new abilities, there is nothing wrong with talking about them and having differing opinions, and have no problem letting you have yours, I laid out mine, you don't like it, no skin off my back. I am just here to give some perspectives and help refine ideas.
Come up with some ideas and we can gladly discuss them to make them viable and refine them to where they might get considered I wont suggest anything because people associate me with other classes and thus will take them with a grain of salt that I don't want what is best for the game over what is best for 1 class.
