New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Time Burner 2, Feb 18, 2016.

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  1. Kamea Augur

    But do you think hhe 'should' stay paladin-only for tank classes?

    Funny. If lore mattered and if it were specific to only 1 tank class, that class 'should' be warriors because we're supposedly the masters of weapons and share ability lines with zerkers. But even I think it should be open to all tank classes.


    Ironically, we get screwed on many of our DPS abilities because we share them with zerkers and/or other melee classes. These shared abilities won't get warrior specific buffs because they're too lazy to give us specific lines, and they keep them tuned to zerkers, not us.

    [16493/16092] Vehement Rage VI
    Classes: WAR/254 BER/254
    1: Decrease Healing Taken by 10%
    2: Increase Hit Damage by 15%
    3: Increase Min Hit Damage by 45%

    [37167/23548] Valorous Rage IX
    Classes: PAL/254
    1: Decrease Healing by 40%
    2: Limit Effect: Current HP
    8: Decrease AC by 390
    9: Increase Critical Hit Damage by 400% of Base Damage
    12: Decrease Weapon Delay by 45%

    Vehement Rage was made years before Valorous Rage and originally debuffed healing by 25%. For whatever reason they only upgraded the Min Hit damage. Regardless, given how pointless the "2: Increase Hit Damage by 15%" buff is due to stacking issues, "9: Increase Critical Hit Damage by 400% of Base Damage" would be vastly superior for warriors even ignoring the HHE.

    We also share Battle Leap with zerkers.

    [13600/22672] Battle Leap Warcry III
    Classes: WAR/254 BER/254
    Duration: 6s (1 ticks) Song, Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
    5: Increase Hit Damage by 35%

    They finally gave us a warrior specific version, War Stomp....

    [41096/41096] War Stomp
    Classes: WAR/254
    Duration: 12s (2 ticks) Song, Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
    5: Increase Hit Damage by 35%

    ... But after having countless increase damage hit damage mods, their glorious plan was to give us a carbon copy of battle leap. War Stomp should receive a crit mod.

    They gave us a farmed SK ability, with the warrior version being Heroic Blade/Rage:

    [37195/37195] Heroic Rage
    Classes: WAR/254
    Duration: 60s (10 ticks) Song, Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: No
    1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 35%
    2: Increase Melee Haste by 68%
    3: Increase Critical Hit Damage by 150% of Base Damage

    However, having both a crit rate and crit damage mod makes so the recourse doesn't stack with either of our discs, so ironically the way they could dramatically buff this disc is by nerfing it, by removing 1 of those 2 slots.

    Plus I don't think putting haste on warrior abilities does what the devs think it does.

    [41804/37197] Imperator's Charge III
    Classes: WAR/254
    1: Increase Spell Haste by 40%
    2: Limit Min Mana Cost: 10
    3: Increase Melee Haste by 40%
    Text: You heed the Imperator's Charge!

    I've seen devs talk up the 40% melee haste on charge before. Glad to know they put their A+ devs on warrior abilities.

    Plus they've been forgetting to upgrade shield topple, which is still warrior's premier activate DPS ability.

    [19557/15212] Shield Topple Rk. III
    Classes: WAR/83
    Skill: 2H Slash (Combat Skill)
    Recourse: Bracing Stance
    1: 2H Slash Attack for 302 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
    Text: You are knocked off balance.

    Shield topple should be changed to a short term buff that procs X number of 302dmg 2H slashes.
  2. Enkel Augur

    What class are you playing? (On cell and see zerker pic but can't see magelo if you have one linked).
  3. sojero One hit wonder

    That is my SK. I don't have a current magelo for any of my toons.
  4. shiftie Augur

    To be fair Paladins had self only haste since valor of marr getting the ability to self cast hhe wasn't too far fetched 50 leveled later.

    With that said they should add a % chance to proc hhe on 2h stance for wars like the rogue version. With the coding now available on bandolier sets as long as it dispelled with a shield equipped sure. Or tie it into a 2her only buff. Giving hhe with shield equipped is a no go for me. Otherwise sure.

    For sk I'm not sure but it shouldn't exceed the duration of vr. Their discs aren't set up the same way, if visage still silenced them it would be more reasonable. But they are asking for a crit disc because of the vod dmg mod and then also wanting hhe the stacking would be off the charts but if it as reasonable sure. Their epic grants an accuracy mod which the other 2 tanks lack. And are a step away from lolworthy dps
  5. Cicelee Augur

    Will this thread get to 2000 replies in it?

    Just doing my part...
    Xanathol likes this.
  6. sojero One hit wonder

    We can make it happen!
  7. Xanathol Augur

    That's what I was getting at without stating it outright - his wet dream of adps and super short fight isn't a real scenario and the moment you add just 30 seconds to the fight, the numbers plummet. And of course, during a real fight, HT / LT / TL and spears under quick spear draw huge aggro, meaning the need to FD a number of times when dpsing a raid target. My best, real parse, is certainly not even close to the neighborhood of 300k. Hell, its not in the same country.

    Heroic rage isn't a farmed out SK ability, because the SK version is much worse:
    Carmine Rage III
    1: Increase Spell Damage (2235)
    2: Limit: Min Level (96)
    3: Limit: Max Level(105)
    4: Limit: Spell Type (Detrimental only)
    5: Limit: Effect (Hitpoints allowed)
    6: Limit: Combat Skills Not Allowed
    7: Limit: Minimum Mana Cost (10)
    8: Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 456%
    9: Increase Attack Speed by 68%

    Translated, it has a worthless haste buff and adds spell damage while increasing min damage. The spell damage doesn't stack of course with the other multitude of spell damage adding abilities, plus this means more casting for an otherwise melee buff?

    I'd take Heroic Rage in a heartbeat.

    Umm shiftie, really? Paladins shouldn't be talking about 'loldps'... ;)

    Its a moot point though, because the spell dev just doesn't care. I've harped on Heroic Rage and Carmine Rage not having a HHE and SKs not having a crit / cripple disc for longer than I care to remember. Hell, you'd think at a minimum a reduction in the ridiculous 49.5 minute - after reduction AAs mind you! - reuse time on leechcurse could get looked at but nope! The only chance of anything reasonable being done right now is via AAs, sadly.
  8. Ravengloome Augur

    No classes sustained dps is just auto attack. Everyone in the group should be rotating cooldown all the time, always. That must be where I misunderstood, I assumed you meant people were trying :p.
    sojero likes this.
  9. Enkel Augur

    Thanks for the reply.

    Edit: if the devs close this on page 99 or 1999 replies......
    Potawatomi likes this.
  10. Makavien Augur

    The thing is Kamea no one was talking about raid dps in those posts that was group dps 200 - 300 k is what I think could be done on damsel 60 second and lower burns with almost perfect adps included .That is also counting lucky rng rolls of heroic strikes .

    And xanathol how do you forget asking about group dps? The whole conversation started about auto attack dps and group related sustained dps.

    If grummus or the first phase of damsel is taking you more than a minute...Hell even grummus on the raid shouldn't take you more than 50 seconds but we lack adps there to have a good parse with adps included to go off of.
  11. sojero One hit wonder

    You shouldn't talk about "could," you should do some parsing and show it if you want to do it and talk about it. Your talking about stuff that you (from the way you are posting) have no idea about. Your credibility in what you are posting keeps going down every time you say stuff such as, I don't do the group game anymore, I don't have any parses, I think it could. Do you realize that as you post that it makes everyone that reads what you write dismiss it, regardless if it could be true or not.
    Xanathol likes this.
  12. shiftie Augur

    Yes really because paladin uber parse relies on things

    1 said paladin must have 7th
    2 said paladin must get s kill shot
    3 mildly in the absence of the other 2 can get from bat or ranger at s reduced capacity

    So lol dps requires a paladin to play the game for 7 years. Anyone without it, is being balanced by it. And we won't talk about kills hits because we both know that is even more stupid.
    I tried to have a stacking conflict with 7h added in and then have some "not all" of that dps put on another item in the burn line up. I was ignored and so once every 4 hours a paladin gets to play hero.
  13. Makavien Augur

    Really I don't care what you guys think about me here? The data is out there if you really want to find it ? I am sorry you think everyone is here to make things up on the internet?
    I do have the parses somewhere I just don't feel like digging through 6 months of logs to find it .
    I even stated they were just best guesses ? I guess people still read only part of what is said and take everything as 100% fact or something ?
  14. Kamea Augur

    200k is 100% possible.
    250k is 100% possible.
    300k under any circumstance for a full 60s duration is quite iffy. You'd need a shorter duration for the heroic blade damage to pad the parse.

    That's the problem with giving 50% +/- MOE on your 'estimates.' To go from 250k DPS to 300k DPS you'd need to increase your DPS by another 20%, which is a tall order.

    Thing is, burn DPS is so inflated these days that a lot of non-raiders may think 250k dps is a lot, but that's less than 1/2 the DPS of a real DPS class on any content where 250k warrior dps is possible, which is only possible vs group content and old raids.

    Yeah but lucky RNG for heroic strikes vs current raids simply isn't possibly. You 'may' get lucky with 1 of the strikes, but not all 3. Mitigation is just too high.

    Melee DPS is much lower of a contribution for warrior burns than people in this thread think. For my 200k+ DPS burns (again, only possible outside of TBM/TDS raids), melee damage is only 65-70% of my DPS.

    Zerkers can do significantly higher dps vs old raids / group content but their DPS is cut a lot on current raids, but their DPS is not cut to the same extent as ours, in terms of %.
  15. Ravengloome Augur

    Its worth it though every damn time
  16. shiftie Augur

    Ya it's fun but completely not balanced. Also my phones autocorrect is wildly irritating. Every time I try to abbreviate a word it has an aneurism. Bst = bat from now on though.

    Funny that now kamea wants rage turned into ri. When I suggested a proc like that several pages back I was shunned and told it wouldn't work for warriors.
  17. sojero One hit wonder

    In those situations zerkers are hitting around 800k +/- 200k with luck and the right support (ie 50-60 second fights on older content)
  18. Ravengloome Augur

    So basically wizard dps. Nerf decap.
  19. sojero One hit wonder

    Oh thats on stuff that decap doesnt work on :)
  20. Potawatomi Augur

    It would be classic...;)
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