New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Time Burner 2, Feb 18, 2016.

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  1. sojero One hit wonder

    Sleeping with the enemy i see, least you like his rod.
  2. Xanathol Augur

    Oh I read it. You mentioned it everytime to make your case against calc strike then conveniently left it off to compare the total of the 4 strikes you proposed @ a 15 sec reuse.

    At your proposal, you are probably looking at ~4k dps (based off what current abilities do @ a 60 sec reuse timer). Not ~4k dps on a burn, but ~4k dps fairly regularly, as 800 endurance certainly isn't crippling (a top end war could maintain that for ~40 minutes wo any regen). When you're talking a ~4k dps gain to sustainable dps - not burn cycled dps, but 'stuff you can count on for every mob' dps - now that's lol worthy.
  3. Kamea Augur

    Here's the problem with theorycrafting on forums.

    You're talking as if we do 0 actived DPS already and use 0 end on other things. That's how you can say silly things like this is a bad proposal because it's a free 4k DPS for 40 minutes. Even accepting your numbers, it'd be a maximum of a 3k DPS upgrade ignoring end and calculated strike all together. If you think 3k DPS increase is significant enough to whine on forums about one of the lowest DPS classes in the game, you're a special one.

    You're also ignoring the fact Shield Topple is from 2008. Had it just got the normal expansion to expansion upgrades, the line would be significantly higher than 302 dmg today. Warriors requested upgrades for it pretty much every expansion, there has always been a problem with consolidating Shield Topple and X Strike line. Given that X Strike line has stagnated like crazy since 2007, I feel now is a good time to roll the two together.
  4. Xanathol Augur

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't really know what each class sustains vs can average vs burns but my gut tells me you are well aware. Your side comments are just pure hypocrisy.
  5. Kamea Augur

    Shield Topple, and Calculated Strike, share a reuse time with our primary aggro disc, Insult.

    In group content, I don't come anywhere close to using these abilities on refresh, since I use Insult a lot of the time. And if it's a fast pulling group, I won't use Calculated Strike at all, because graying out Insult for 35s is too long.

    Again, this is the problem with theorycrafting on forums. The scenario you're think of is AFKing vs a dummy using nothing but auto attack. In the real game, we need to aggro mobs.

    The only scenario we'd be able to use this upon refresh is if we're not tanking in the group. The devs have said for a decade they want to be able to do good DPS when not tanking. I think tying DPS to aggro discs is a much better idea than destroying our mitigation. 35% Battle Leap + War Stomp aren't sustainable, but it's up enough; enough that going from 35% Leap+Stomp to 45% Offensive does not produced a particularly noticeable boost.

    Right, beyond this line needing an upgrade, something needs to be done to fix our non-tanking DPS, and a lot of other knights in this thread said warriors should be more focused around activated DPS. Guess you don't fall into that camp.
  6. Brudal Augur

    minor correction: http://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=19557

    you should be free to shield topple to your hearts content.
  7. sojero One hit wonder

    I would love to see warriors get a couple more/upgraded activated dps while tanking discs. I would love to see some that do and do not lock out agro tools so that they can decide which to do, much like knights do with their spell bars. I would love to see them get some significant dps discs that have the trade off of locking out mitigation abilities, but are worth the trade when they know they wont have to tank for that X amount of time.

    The major key is they have to be worth the trade off, and currently warrior dps discs are crap for the most part, and not worth the trade off.

    I want every class to be fun to play. Tanks/cc/healers need to have a way to trade their main role to do dps. When you form a group you can have to many tanks, to many healers, to many cc, but you can never have enough dps!
  8. Makavien Augur

    Unless these dps discs put us right on the heels of true dps classes then no there should not be any trade offs.
    If it just allows us to do better than what we are doing now but not anything worth talking about then there is no reason for trade offs.
  9. sojero One hit wonder


    What would the heels be? You are already doing 300k so you say, do you want to jump it to 500, be 700, or you know since warrior and master of all, 1 mil dps, cause stuff!

    You also realize the other tanks have to trade off their survivablity (and agro) to do their top end dps as well right? Now the one thing that knights have over warriors is the ability to sacrifice some, and not all, of their tanking/agro for more dps to be more well rounded and suit the group makeup, and that is why I suggested what I did, to allow the same flexibility for warrirors.

    You will never be "on the heels" because if you were you could replace all the dps with warriors and have 3 ready to tank, the rest dps, and then rotate them as you saw fit. Now, Tanks doing 1/3 the dps of a dps class isn't right either, and is about where we are. All tanks need to be able to do around 70-80% of a dps class burn and sustain. 20% is still a large amount, but not enough to make the trade off for more tanks worth it to higher end guilds, while not hurting the mid/low end as much.
  10. Makavien Augur


    The thing is in that 300k situation the dpsers are doing 800 or so. If I recall correctly when I did 250k on damsel without a perfect group , the group dps was something like 2.5 mil or something crazy like that . Basically all my damsel fights were mostly casters with a bard and ranger or beast and beserker never a perfect group that is why I estimate 300 k is possible on a damsel or grummus burn with warrior, bard ,shaman, ranger , beast ,and beserker.

    And just to comment on "new discs" I feel if the dps are burning for 800 k for me to be locked out of my mitigation discs in group content I should be able to do 600k anything less would make the trade off not worth it in my opinion because it would be upping the odds that I die by 50% or more. A 50% higher chance to die is extremely risky.

    Maybe they could solve this by making our burn shorter or work differently when you are in a raid . I think that would be the best evolution in everquest make our abilities act different depending if we are in group content or raid content and even pvp . It can't be that hard to do other games were doing this kind of stuff not long after eq was released.
  11. sojero One hit wonder


    You didn't really answer the question either, you only answered my sarcasm part of the post, where do you want to see warriors at and at what point should they trade agro/survivability for that dps?

    That is part of the point though, If you were to get "on the heels of" dps classes dps, you wouldn't see that without having all the adps that it takes for a dps class to get it as well. They cannot balance a class by saying "well they are always in a tank group" because that's not realistic. First because the game isn't about just raiding, second if you can have "on the heels of" and by that I am thinking 85-95% of, then you could replace them in that dps group on raids, and build your box crew to suit you and have the dps of a dps class while tanking, because you don't need defensive discs all the time in the grind game.

    Or are you talking about mid tier dps, beastlords, ranger(they may be top tier now.....), mage(could just be the mages I see) etc or do you think when you go all dps mode you should beat them?
  12. thedragon Elder

    Without reading through 93 pages, I'm curious as to why you say choose a knight if NOT boxing? Are SK's and Pallies more difficult to box than a warrior?
  13. sojero One hit wonder

    warriors in a box situation are the easiest because of large agro generation that you can put on 1 hotkey, and passive mitigation vs spells to heal etc. Mind you, you wont be hitting their potential, but for minimalist effort they do better.
    Nightops likes this.
  14. Nightops Augur


    Harrr..... lets get this thread pushed to 100 pages!
  15. Flatchy Court Jester

    It has been petering out lately. quite disappointing. Perhaps we have reached that point of acceptance?
  16. Kamea Augur


    Or, 90+ pages pointing out the % is too high and the broken stacking with vie discs need to be tuned is enough.
  17. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    Or!

    [IMG]

    If only knight forum avatars could be made to be chihuahuas. :(
    sojero likes this.
  18. sojero One hit wonder


    Its never enough, please tell us again, and use pretty pictures and actual parses. Please.
  19. Derd Augur

    Sadly not a single warrior in our guild has changed to pally or sk, we are doomed.
    Nightops and Abazzagorath like this.
  20. Agrippa Augur

    I can barely sustain ten minutes in a group if I'm dps or healing at all as a paladin. That's using clarity, spirituality, arx mentis medicine, mod rods, marr's gift, horn, yaulp, glyph of the lost secrets, and probably some other clicks that I'm forgetting about. If you enjoy downtime almost on par with classic era, go paladin.
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