Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. menown Augur

    Sadly, the Necro DoT revamp is not going to solve the group necro DPS issue. Its goal is to reduce the complexity of spell weave and the number of debuff slots used by the necromancer class.

    If I were in charge of spells and I wanted to improve Necro DPS in group content within the 20 second range, then all I would do is change how swift DoTs work. Swift DoTs are considered 2 tick DoTs with the bonus ghost tick (3 tick DoTs), that are also not focused by some AAs (Lingering Death), spells (Chaotic Power, Efficiency Awareness XI), or item focus (Affliction Haste XIII, Affliction Efficiency XIII, DoT extension). I also don't think they should be focused by any of these buffs except for Chaotic Power. My first change would be to make Chaotic Power work for Swift DoTs. Second, I would change the cast timer on Swift DoTs to 0.5 seconds. Third, I would unlink the 5 different Swift DoTs so that we can cast them all. And fourth, the biggest change of all, I would make swift DoTs a 1 tick DoT with a front loaded DD.

    Having DoTs with a DD component is no new thing. Necros have had them in past content, but like many other spells, have had this trend fade away. I only use Swift DoTs with pet tanking and group content anyways. It won't effect Root Rotting methods. It will speed up the full damage of the spell by 6 seconds, which sometimes already takes about 18 seconds -1 to reach its full duration. This would give the swift DoTs an instant damage component with extra damage that lags out at a minimum of 7 seconds and a maximum of 11 seconds.

    Of course some other changes will have to occur to compensate for the reduced swift DoT duration. AAs such as Hand of Death, Deathly Resolve, and Funeral Pyre will have to have their limiter on Min Duration bumped down from (12s) to (6s).

    Between 5 Swift DoTs on an 18 second recast timer, our swarm pet that we can now use to switch targets via /pet swarm AA, and our Aura, we should finally be able to contribute as much as some lower tier DPS classes in groups.
  2. fransisco Augur

    If groups are always being built with only the optimal, alot of classes would never get it. It'd be all warrior/sk, berzerker, wizard, and shamans.
    Necros are not so bad that your better off not inviting one. They are great, I love having them in the group. The extra stuff they can do is always neat.
    And when it comes time to melt a bosses face off, well, necros are good at removing skin...
  3. Siddar Augur

    Whats this ghost DoT tick people talk about? Swift DoT are two tick then a third ticks provided by earing detrimental extension focus. I've never seen this mythical ghost tick.
  4. menown Augur

    Take off your earring and cast a swift DoT. It still does 3 ticks. The Detrimental focus has a limit of Min Duration (24s). It will not effect swift DoTs. Ghost ticks apply to regular DoTs as well. Cast your Pyre (base duration 30 seconds or 5 ticks). Add 3 ticks with Lingering Death rank 3. It should be 8 ticks, but you will see 9.
    Siddar likes this.
  5. Lazipuppy Journeyman


    I can feel Rubiota, necro just don't fit in group very well, and not strong enough to solo in RoS.
    I returned recently, got my necro to 110, got most important AAs(seems necro doesn't get much love at this level increased expansion), and realized that I got very little chance to take down RoS named.
    Ok, so I need a group, but why would a group take a necro? personally, unless the dude is a friend or no other classes available, I wouldn't want one.
    I believe there are some people with better gears/skills can still do well in RoS, but for me it's just too disappointed/frustrated, at some point I was thinking of quitting again, but I'm still here anyway, just seldom log in my necro.
    By the way, I don't think revamp is coming anytime soon, in my opinion, the most important burn dps boost in RoS is our GODR, and the way it upgraded is for more stacking.
    It's a game, find a way to have fun playing it or quit, I think it's probably all I can do.
  6. fransisco Augur

    Seriously people, your not as bad as you claim.
    Why would ANY group take a beastlord when they can have a berzerker? Why a mage when they can have wizard?
    Why a paladin when you can have a warrior? What even is a druid?

    Just cause your not the #1 dps doesn't mean your bad.
    Necros have been OP since about the start of the game. Even though they have trouble soloing named doesn't mean they are worthless.
  7. Vaeeldar Augur


    You keep posting this but we aren't talking about a gap between beastlord and berserker - we are talking about massive gap in group damage in the game. Even with 27k+ aa a necro is not putting out any dps - a tank does about the same in the group setting. Yes necros are as bad as they are.

    Which is why I've replaced mine now with a mage or wizzy in my box group. I've had the necro since beta 4 but their damage output is just abysmal - mobs just don't last long enough for them to be anything more than a filler spot.
  8. Siddar Augur

    Shows how often I don't have earing equipped.
  9. Lazipuppy Journeyman

    I felt better when you brought up pal, nah, just kidding..lol
    Seriously, I can see your point, but isn't there something wrong if some classes are almost always better then others? isn't that part of the reason fewer and fewer people playing paladin?

    Though I believe Necro can still top a parse at raid event, it's really not what I care, I am just a casual player doing group content, and having trouble soloing RoS t1 named is not because of insufficient dps. In my opinion, it's simply because they are relatively stronger then t1 named used to be, they got nasty dots, long duration stun..etc (speaking of stun, it's a huge disadvantage fighting these named when you have to do multiple casts to stack dots to do damage.) They are just not for soloing and I am cool with that.

    However, this situation kinda force necro to join a group, we never fit in a group very well, but in the past, we can chose to do stuff by ourselves so it wasn't that bad, now for the first time we really need to rely on others, and we don't have much to contribute in exchange, yes, people may still take us, but in the end of the day, we know we are not contributing much.

    Synergy, probably the only thing I can think of that matters.(not as good as chanter's though)
    RB, was somewhat helpful but is almost dead now.
    Group health tap, no update since cotf.
    Group power tap, likely don't worth a spell gem.
    Mana drain, still good if with a weak group having mana issue, but the gap between each cast seems to be a bit longer then it used to.

    I mean, we really don't have many tools for helping group members, and we don't have many tools to do decent dps in a group setting as well. Did devs do anything to help us? Not that I can think of, no dot revamp, no group tools update, no passive aa upgrade in this expansion, even a combination dot will help, just cast 2 highest swift dots at once, or something like chanter's dd dot. But nothing been done, I kinda feel that they just don't care about this class anymore.

    Not because I'm having trouble solo named, not because I'm not #1 dps class, it's the indifferent attitude that really makes me down, If necro were my only toon, I would have left, but as I said, find a way to enjoy the game or quit, there are still a lot choices out there, if necro not fun anymore, just play another one.
  10. Brohg Augur

    synergy from blood nuking, decay orb, swarm swift swift swift, pet

    The swifts are due a "dot revamp" style upgrade, but there isn't nothing going on
    fransisco likes this.
  11. Ibudin Augur

    100% agree with you, not sure why all the pitty for necros and group game. Some of the problems is the people you're trying to group with. Honestly, I'd like to see more necros grouping together ...only other class i prefer over my boxed shaman - is another necro. Being able to pet tank anything in ROS - yes i have ROS raid ear and almost full ROS raid gear with every single AA purchased. Adding another necro to a shaman/necro team pretty much puts the game on easy mode. I have no problem sustaining enough group DPS to be invited on any grouping situation. Raids on Saturday - was top parser again on every single event. I love the class. Group game - cycle your burns, dont save them, have more than 1 mob in camp being tanked with pet if tank cant handle it, load up the dots - dont be that guy that cast 2 dots and sits there - put as many dots as you can on each mob - cast your blood nuke, bust the skelly aura. Its not that hard. Add another necro - and boom alliance - now things are dieing so fast you'll run out of mobs.
    IblisTheMage and fransisco like this.
  12. mmats Augur

    And after all that, youre still running well behind similarly geared mage and wiz vs group mobs.
  13. Nekk Elder


    Seems to me like people are crying about necs not being burst dps. That is not the point of necs, and definitely not the point of this post.

    The point is that we are the premier dotting class. We should not be behind other classes such as shms, druids and especially enchanters in terms of dot dps. All classes were promised a dot revamp. We are one of the two classes left who have not gotten them.

    Personally I like the idea of someone who said we should be able to cast multiple dots at once with a 100% rate like shms can. Being able to cast two dots at the same time even if it's just a few spells would exceptionally help our case in both raids and the group game.

    This thread has over 6k views and close to 100 replies, not a single one of them from a dev. Pretty sad imo. The least they could do is state they are in the process of working on them or simply state they don't have the resources to rework nec dots due to recent layoffs or something.
  14. fransisco Augur

    Show me a parse of a necro doing the same damage as a paladin or a bard in a group setting. Then I'll believe it. Otherwise, its just a pity party.
  15. Nekk Elder

    /GU Fight X in 2966s, 548109k @184797dps --- Soulzfighter 164421k @55473dps (30%) --- Nekkroh 164088k @55548dps (29.94%) --- Belluen 89660k @32415dps (16.36%) --- Nekkroh`s pet 68849k @23347dps (12.56%) --- Typhoid 40288k @13690dps (7.35%) --- Maellaenya 20792k @7622dps (3.79%) --- Kinthaf 11k @8dps (0%)

    Soulzfighter is a paladin. With the nec using dots only, she beat out one of the top necs in game. Add in pets and I barely beat her in the group game. This is just sad too as she is a tank, whether I am burst dps or not.
    mmats likes this.
  16. mmats Augur

    Necros dont need help vs raid bosses (other than debuff limits). Just combining dots would make necros OP in raids.

    I think all non-swift necro dots should be revamped so that they have a "raid boss damage" and "non raid boss damage". For instance...

    [56550/9703] Mourgis' Decay Rk. III
    2: Decrease Current HP by 2009 per tick

    Becomes

    [56550/9703] Mourgis' Decay Rk. III
    1: Decrease Current HP by 6027 per tick (If Not Raid Boss)
    3: Decrease Current HP by 2009 per tick (If Raid Boss)

    Something like that.
  17. Nekk Elder




    You're right, we don't. I think this is actually a good idea as well.
    mmats likes this.
  18. strongbus Augur


    can we add in they didn't give us any added passive dot stuff for ROS. be nice if they did
  19. Vaeeldar Augur



    So Nekk beat me to it. The reality is just a mage, wiz, or berseker, in the group - you know other dps classes and we are suddenly useless.

    Look at how long mobs last in the group game 15 seconds maybe 20 in a slow group. You don't have to be a math wiz to see that a class that has to wait until the next tick to do even some damage, is immediately in trouble in that scenario. You keep defending necros as being useful but it's in a pure vacuum about all the useful things they bring to the group.

    Larger hp and swift dots helped necros for some time some expansions back, but the reality is now a days mobs just die far too quick and the swift dots have not kept up with the times. Necros have never been great in a group game but to be uselss is something else.


    And no I did not say we typically are as bad as tanks/bards but we aren't that much better than them which is not where the necro should be in the dps game. Also no pity party here, I dumped the necro for a mage on one group (20k aa) and a wizzy (15k aa) on the other setup. I'm vastly happier with the damage increase. Just that moved alone made the ros missions 10x easier to box where they are on lockdown.
  20. Ibudin Augur

    Guess if i had to play a group game necro - I could complain with you guys. I raid, its the only reason I play, and the necro is a raid machine. The available debuff slots on encounters screw other necros over, which i dont have an answer to but honeslty its hard to get more than 2-3 to show up on any raid night. I play a partially raid geared Zerker and fully raid geared Shaman - the necro can safely kill more all day long than the other two in the group game (duo boxing), but waaaaa not as fast? Does how fast you kill even matter any more? I was through all the missions and complete in VP + Max AA, in short order after expansion release - we all raced to be at the same place for the rest of the year until a new expansion comes out. Game over.

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