Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Brohg Augur

    Either that or he's found a way to parse Sphere's damage. That'd probably do it :oops:
    Sancus likes this.
  2. Scornfire Augur

    There's plenty of ways, you're welcome to talk to me in-game. I run a parser 24/7, I'm not basing anything I say on feelings lol
  3. Zalamyr Augur


    That's a bit less true for necros than other casters because of the way focuses work on DoTs vs nukes. But yeah, still not as impactful as melees.
  4. Brohg Augur

    I can't speak to how assiduous he was keeping Sphere running, but the 150M recorded total damage difference between

    ' Lost but Not Forgotten in 2209s, 985618k @446183 | Szilent + pets 698746k@(316605 in 2207s) | Necromancer + pets 139190k@(63211 in 2202s) | Beastlord + pets 84888k@(38709 in 2193s) | Bard + pets 56707k@(25671 in 2209s) | Cleric 6086k@(2759 in 2206s)

    and
    ' Lost but Not Forgotten in 2324s, 1131222k @486756 | Szilent + pets 670665k@(288582 in 2324s) | Ranger + pets 166036k@(73143 in 2270s) | Rogue 145399k@(63744 in 2281s) | Bard + pets 112309k@(48873 in 2298s) | Cleric 21447k@(9713 in 2208s) | Cleric 15366k@(6784 in 2265s)

    is basically attributable only to Sphere. 66kdps from that spell gem :)
  5. menown Augur

    I see the Necro DoT revamp going in 1 of 3 ways going forward. We already know that lower level versions of the spell lines will no longer stack with the higher level versions. We have also inferred that Aristo wants to reduce the complexity of the class. A reduction in the number of DoT lines that a necro can cast is what some sources have reported.

    Below I have 4 different tables that I think will help explain the possible changes. The top left quadrant is our 15 current DoT lines at max RoS levels. The bottom left quadrant is a possible scenario of a reduction in the DoT lines, from 15 to 12. The upper right quadrant is the current 15 DoT lines but with shared timers or stacking prevention within the same colors. The bottom right quadrant is a combination of the 2 prior quadrants.

    [IMG]

    These are all just guesses of course. However, I think the end result may not be too far off.
  6. Brohg Augur

    If I were doing it, I'd chop way below 12
  7. xaga Elder

    I honestly do not think the Devs even read the caster board..... :(... just a hey we are working on it post would be cool or something.....

    I swear casting all these dots = the reason so many necros have Carpel tunnel
  8. kizant Augur

    I think photobucket is saying to just give up.
    fransisco and Sancus like this.
  9. menown Augur

    Sorry. I hate photobucket and should learn from my mistakes.

    [IMG]
  10. menown Augur

    I have thought through each of the above scenarios some more and believe that there is only 1 choice that Aristo would pick. Below is the option that makes the most sense because I don't think Aristo wants to remove spell data from the game that he spent months on naming. Also, to remove spells, he would have to change ranks 1-3 of each tier of spell runes that reward these spells. Below is an updated Necromancer spell lineup.

    [IMG]

    Once again, if the spells are within the same color group (not including white/blank) then the spells will not stack. I added 2 more spells to the list that were never upgraded, but have been their own spell lines, and thus need to be consolidated somehow.

    No color group has only 1 resist type. This is to enable swapping spell sets for resistant/immune type NPCs. Also, each color group has the same duration. Exceptions are the older line of spells that were added. They were hard to place but I decided on putting Scourge of Fates and Wilting Foliage in the same line as Effluviam because of the bane damage (undead/plant).

    In total, this will give the necro 9 DoTs that he/she can stack. 8 DoTs on raid targets because of snare not landing. Could it be simplified more? Yea, probably, but I believe that this is the route that Aristo will go.
    Sancus likes this.
  11. Brohg Augur

    small sidenote, you've mischaracterized Dicho. It's Magic-200, the "unresistable" part is just the casting "container" at lv101
    menown likes this.
  12. strongbus Augur

    here one way they could do the revamp with little work. don't change the current base damage of all the dots. just make them not stack. takes us down to like 9 lines. But give us a passive aa that adds x damage to each dot tick. But make it so the more dots the more damage it adds. Kinda like how mages line of many spells is more damage for more pets out. have our give more based damage as we load up more dots.

    This cleans up 2 things.

    1st. they don't have to worry bout making the base damage of the dots to big(repeating the swift dot crap)

    2nd. by having the damage scale based on the number of dots it stops us form ramping up to fast.
  13. Rubiota Journeyman

    3rd would call it fixed while doing nothing to help the group game.

    From all the great ideas about shrinking the number of spell lines to 9 or so but keeping the dps similar to current and making 60%ish come from the staple 4 lines I had a hard time seeing why anyone would be worried about them screwing it up. This post is a great example of how ignoring half the game (group or raid) would allow the class to be epically fubar'd.
  14. strongbus Augur


    The issue with dots is its hard to balance 1 set of dots for both group and raid. It hard to make a class that is built around being able to do large amount of damage for longer then other classes, without being able to ramp up as fast as they can, be good at both without making said class to OP.

    Personal the way I deal with necros in group is 3 fold

    1st. would be to take the swift dots give them a big boost in damage, then flag them to work with all necro aa passive/active. then flag them to do nothing on raid mobs.

    2nd. give us a good size dd in the range of 15-18k base damage(life tap would work great for the lore aspect), give it a reasonable recast for group content, and again if the dervs are worried bout being OP on raids flag it to not work on raid mobs.

    3rd. give us some nice pet buffs. Atm necros get a haste and some crappy pet procs. make it so our pet can do reasonable damage in group content. and again if the dervs are worried bout being OP on raids flag it to not work on raid mobs.
  15. Brohg Augur

    your suggestion reads like "split the class into two classes" "split the class into two classes" and "become a magician, also split the class into two classes"
  16. strongbus Augur


    never said it be a good one just my thoughs.

    But like I said. How do you make the necro work right with both group and raid with 1 set of spells for both.

    In a group setting where mobs are dead in under 20 sec or so our non swift dots don't last long enough to do much dps. Most of the dps of a group necro in 20 sec comes form our dds/pets/swift dots. In most group setting you can replace a necro with a mage or wiz and get double the damage. Atm the only times I feel I am help to a group is if I am pulling for the group or got 2 or 3 mobs being root rotted while the group is killing other mobs.

    Atm the only way I can see them making necro more group friendly is to increase the damage of dd/pets/swifts. They need to increase necro group dps to a point where it just under mage/wiz for casters.
  17. mmats Augur

    Making a dps class that revolves around dots was dumb in the first place. Just give necros a simple DD lineup that is a step below mage/wiz, which they could then use for burst damage on group/trash mobs. Get rid of the special target rules on dots, and instead take the current "raid boss" damage and make that the base. Dont change chit with their pets.

    Necros should be doing slightly less than mage/wiz in the <20 sec timeframe using DD's, and then start to pull ahead after that with dots.
  18. Brohg Augur

    20 seconds!

    Y'all just playing the wrong class
  19. IblisTheMage Augur

    I think the role definition should be the starting point, giving a framework to design around.

    So, questions like:

    DPS level in different combat duration scenarios
    ADPS levels
    Roles (dps, healing, tanking, cc, pulling, buffing)
    Utility (mana, track, player transportation, etc)
    Self reliance/solo strength (able to gain how much xp pr hour as solo, able to handle group content alone, etc)
    Survivability

    My perception (which counts zero in this context, but is added as possible input for the dialogue) is that I think that Necros should be the no 1 solo class, able to survive anything, getting the most xp pr hour when soloing, and actually giving up a little xp when grouping. Necrod should be the lone wokf, a bit mystical, a little bit arrogant and very defiant towards content. They should have a diverse toolbox, so that they can get around all the group roles, and never need a merc (which is how I see them gaining the most xp pr hour). It should also be among the most dificult classes to play well.

    They should be a solid adition in a group, but not shine.

    They should shine in raids, but not stack well. A single Chuck Norris in a guild is epic, 4 Chuck Norrises not so much. As long as they are the single necro in the raid, they should be no 1 by a good margin, but with a second necro added, they should all dump to 10th place or worse.

    This is meant as a role description debate framework, I am clueless wrt necros, but they used to have this mythic air around them, which I think was kind of awesome.
  20. Rubiota Journeyman

    Ibliz: I think you're on the right track for sure with defining class roles in scenarios and working from there.

    My standpoint, which of course isn't everyone's, is stuck in the middle. Imo necros either need to be able to solo group content or be able to be additive in groups otherwise I'm stuck in bazaar gear or begging for rots. My necro is max aa, can't raid and can't get a group for t2 eok or better because everyone would rather I bring any of 6 alts because they do more dps in the group timeframe. Personally I remember raids were fun but time constraints keep me from raiding anymore so unless they add visible chase loot and a HUUUGE bonus to the drop chance for soloing how are they supposed to get decent gear?

    I love playing the necro, it's easily one of my top 3 favorite classes but I just feel so stuck trying to progress my character. I've been doing heroes journey, slayer and all the old stuff because anything current I'm almost to the point where I'd be better off rolling a necro box just to guarantee alliance dps for groups so people won't at me till I switch to a better group dps class.

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