Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Ibudin Augur

    Not being critical here, but doesnt look like you use third spire and bp each time its up. Unless I am reading that wrong. What about all your other burns? Those are like 50 minute combined parses?
    I get that you like to save them for a named, but you also loose out on a lot of total damage on the other mobs you can roll those burns on.

    Also - again - it appears you beat the pally on the parse pretty handedly, 50% of over all damage to his 30? 45% to his 31%? I think thats a respectable differential.

    Be glad that pally wasnt a dual wielding war - I did 3 ROS heroics with a war the other day for the combined parse he was hitting 200K dps.
  2. Nekk Elder

    I did beat the pally, but there is no way I could reach war or SK combined parses when fighting multiple mobs even with sphere.

    Note the quotes I added in your reply "Be glad that pally etc." - That's the point, we shouldn't be falling way behind tanks. And you are correct, I don't use them every time they are up. I like to be the one to save them for nameds so I can burn them down before someone steals them from my camp. Happens all the time if I don't.
  3. Azorin Journeyman

    /GU test in 18322s, 416119k @22711sdps --- Azorin + pets 329282k@17972sdps (17979dps in 18315s) [79.15%] --- Garn 30151k@1646sdps (4644dps in 6492s) [7.25%] --- Gabobn 19075k@1041sdps (6137dps in 3108s) [4.58%] --- Ganer 16221k@885sdps (4722dps in 3435s) [3.9%] --- Veneker 5305k@290sdps (5408dps in 981s) [1.28%] --- Jabarn 4748k@259sdps (2566dps in 1850s) [1.14%] --- Vobn 4045k@221sdps (6821dps in 593s) [0.97%] --- Jaber 3812k@208sdps (4017dps in 949s) [0.92%] --- Genn 2621k@143sdps (5139dps in 510s) ...

    As you can see I go thru alot of pets (very weak pets these days). not many swift casts as it is just me and my SK or Mage. Average fight: 90-130 sec.

    Azorin - 5253
    --- Scent of Terris IX - 860 - casts as part of GCD
    --- Eradicate Magic - 668 - casts as part of GCD
    --- Hemorrhage Essence Rk. II - 485 - experimenting due to RB changes
    --- Cascading Doomshield Rk. II - 482 - trying to keep pet alive
    --- Call Skeleton Mob Rk. II - 470
    --- Ignite Synapses Rk. II - 202
    --- Wake the Dead XXIII - 194 - casts as part of GCD
    --- Combust Bones Rk. II - 178
    --- Encroaching Darkness Beza - 178 - casts as part of GCD
    --- Pyre of Marnek Rk. II - 149
    --- Ignite Thoughts Rk. II - 145
    --- Pyre of Jorobb Rk. II - 141
    --- Dark Leech Rk. II - 122
    --- Impose for Blood Rk. II - 115
    --- Grip of Jabaum Rk. II - 114
    --- Banestrike - 110
    --- Fang of Death - 105
    --- Necromantic Curse - 104
    --- Guardian of Blood - 88
    --- Vicious Rabbit - 52
    --- Cloak of Shadows - 26
    --- Marmat's Swift Lifedraw Rk. II - 24
    --- Mazub's Flashblaze Rk. II - 22
    --- Cry Havoc - 18
    --- Ilsaria's Swift Sickness Rk. II - 18
    --- Companion's Aegis II - 13
    --- Blessing of Unity - 12
    --- Rise of Bones XVI - 12
    --- Sebilisian Froglokskin Boon - 12
    --- Death Bloom II - 9
    --- Death's Necromantic Effigy I - 9
    --- Water of Life - 9
    --- Mark of the Martyr - 8
    --- Pestilent Paralysis III - 8
    --- Vie faded - 8
    --- Fortify Companion XXXVII - 6
    --- Geomantra XIII - 6
    --- Curse of Muram - 5
    --- Gift of the Grave III - 5
    --- Imbue Ally Rk. II - 5
    --- Death Peace III - 4
    --- Dying Grasp III - 4
    --- Life Burn III - 4
    --- Mend Companion XVI - 4
    --- Deathly Resolve I - 3
    --- Focus of Arcanum V - 3
    --- Gathering Dusk III - 3
    --- Group Perfected Invisibility to Undead - 3
    --- Hand of Death IV - 3
    --- Mercurial Torment II - 3
    --- Received Auspice of the Hunter - 3
    --- Self-Sacrifice I - 3
    --- Silent Casting VI - 3
    --- Swarm of Decay XVIII - 3
    --- Third Spire of Necromancy III - 3
    --- Convergence - 2
    --- Embrace The Decay I - 2
    --- Forceful Rejuvenation - 2
    --- Purified Blood (Self) - 1
    --- Received Vie - 1
    --- Sigil of the Doomscale Rk. II - 1
    --- Slain - 1
    --- Whisperwind - 1

    More traditional DPS lineup: not many swift casts as it is just me and my SK. (before RB change)

    /GU Katta in 5363s, 164686k @30708sdps --- Azorin + pets 143153k@26693sdps (26708dps in 5360s) [86.93%] --- Lonarer 8596k@1603sdps (3795dps in 2265s) [5.22%] --- Vabeker 7728k@1441sdps (4718dps in 1638s) [4.69%] --- Vibobtik 4658k@869sdps (4345dps in 1072s) [2.83%] --- Jonantik 551k@103sdps (5677dps in 97s) [0.33%]

    Katta on 9/6/2017

    Azorin - 1475
    --- Eradicate Magic - 180 - casts as parts of GCD
    --- Call Skeleton Mob Rk. II - 157
    --- Impose for Blood Rk. II - 92
    --- Pyre of Jorobb Rk. II - 75
    --- Dark Leech Rk. II - 71
    --- Combust Bones Rk. II - 67
    --- Ignite Synapses Rk. II - 66
    --- Ignite Thoughts Rk. II - 63
    --- Pyre of Marnek Rk. II - 63
    --- Encroaching Darkness I - 58
    --- Scent of Terris V - 55
    --- Death's Malaise IV - 47
    --- Banestrike - 46
    --- Horror - 40
    --- Guardian of Blood - 32
    --- Fang of Death - 30
    --- Cloak of Shadows - 26
    --- Companion's Aegis II - 24
    --- Curse of Muram - 17
    --- Mark of the Martyr - 16
    --- Cascading Doomshield Rk. II - 15
    --- Reluctant Benevolence XII - 14
    --- Imbue Ally Rk. II - 13
    --- Ilsaria's Swift Sickness Rk. II - 11
    --- Mazub's Flashblaze Rk. II - 11
    --- Touch of Defilement - 11
    --- Frenzy of the Dead II - 10
    --- Marmat's Swift Lifedraw Rk. II - 10
    --- Blessing of Unity - 9
    --- Companion's Blessing XXI (Azia) - 9
    --- Death's Necromantic Effigy XXI - 9
    --- Hand of Death IV - 8
    --- Rise of Bones XVI - 8
    --- Swarm of Decay XVIII - 8
    --- Fortify Companion XII - 7
    --- Gathering Dusk III - 7
    --- Third Spire of Necromancy III - 7
    --- Death Peace III - 6
    --- Deadskin Rk. II - 5
    --- Dying Grasp III - 5
    --- Life Burn - 5
    --- Lingering Nightmares - 5
    --- Sebilisian Froglokskin Boon - 5
    --- Water of Life - 5
    --- Death Bloom I - 4
    --- Focus of Arcanum V - 4
    --- Silent Casting VI - 4
    --- Forceful Rejuvenation - 3
    --- Gift of Deathly Resolve - 3
    --- Mercurial Torment II - 3
    --- Pestilent Paralysis III - 3
    --- Icy Mending Rk. II - 2
    --- Mend Companion XVI - 2
    --- Mind Extraction Rk. II - 2
    --- Plexipharia's Pallid Haze - 2
    --- Self-Sacrifice I - 2
    --- Spirit of the Vexed - 2
    --- Embalmer's Carapace II - 1
    --- Gift of the Grave III - 1
    --- Glistenwing Venom - 1
    --- Illusion: Spectre - 1
    --- Lightning Breath - 1
    --- Necrotizing Wounds - 1
    --- Pyre of the Lost Rk. II - 1
    --- Scourge of Fates Rk. II - 1
    --- Smouldering Shadow Rk. II - 1
    --- Summon Arcane Wolf Familiar - 1
    --- Vie faded - 1

    Side note: My SK is about the same DPS. I top out about 38-40K on longer fights 200-450 secs but still avg about 25-30k. Solo/Molo I can get avg up to 35-40k. Lower numbers do reflect that I am boxing 1 other account most of the time.
  4. Azorin Journeyman

    Molo DPS (root/rot mostly) - 170-190 sec avg fight

    /GU Molo in 21640s, 721301k @33332sdps --- Azorin + pets 721301k@33332sdps (33332dps in 21640s) [100%] --- Zabarn 0k@0sdps (0dps in 18s) [0%] --- Kobaner 0k@0sdps (0dps in 10s) [0%]

    Molo on 6/7/2017

    Azorin - 3610
    --- Pyre of Jorobb Rk. II - 317
    --- Ignite Synapses Rk. II - 265
    --- Pyre of Marnek Rk. II - 256
    --- Annihilation - 254
    --- Ignite Thoughts Rk. II - 251
    --- Dark Leech Rk. II - 226
    --- Pestilent Paralysis III - 223
    --- Chaotic Liquefaction Rk. II - 221
    --- Smouldering Shadow Rk. II - 208
    --- Pernicious Wounds Rk. II - 135
    --- Necrotizing Wounds - 109
    --- Scent of Terris V - 102
    --- Mortiferous Wounds - 99
    --- Horror - 94
    --- Curse of Muram - 89
    --- Mazub's Flashblaze Rk. II - 69
    --- Ilsaria's Swift Sickness Rk. II - 68
    --- Marmat's Swift Lifedraw Rk. II - 68
    --- Reluctant Benevolence XII - 56
    --- Fang of Death - 52
    --- Companion's Aegis II - 48
    --- Call Skeleton Mob Rk. II - 39
    --- Cloak of Shadows - 38
    --- Eradicate Magic - 35
    --- Petrifying Earth - 30
    --- Death's Necromantic Effigy XXI - 22
    --- Touch of Defilement - 19
    --- Death's Malaise IV - 18
    --- Geomantra XIII - 16
    --- Gift of the Grave III - 16
    --- Encroaching Darkness I - 13
    --- Impose for Blood Rk. II - 13
    --- Hand of Death IV - 12
    --- Banestrike - 11
    --- Combust Bones Rk. II - 10
    --- Death Peace III - 10
    --- Guardian of Blood - 10
    --- Water of Life - 9
    --- Caza Blood Magic I - 7
    --- Pyre of Hazarak - 7
    --- Vicious Rabbit - 7
    --- Vie faded - 7
    --- Essence of Defilement - 6
    --- Deadskin Rk. II - 4
    --- Embrace The Decay I - 4
    --- Mark of the Martyr - 4
    --- Slain - 4
    --- Convergence - 3
    --- Crippling Incapacity Rk. II - 3
    --- Imbue Ally Rk. II - 3
    --- Wake the Dead XXIII - 3
    --- Cascading Doomshield Rk. II - 2
    --- Force Shield - 2
    --- Howl of Tashan - 2
    --- Miktokla's Shade - 2
    --- Purified Blood (Self) - 2
    --- Received Vie - 2
    --- Reflect - 2
    --- Death Bloom I - 1
    --- Grip of Jabaum - 1
    --- Illusion: Spectre - 1
    --- Invigoration of the Ry`Gorr - 1
    --- Received Paragon - 1
    --- Sigil of the Doomscale Rk. II - 1

    Produced by GamParse v1.5.2.19
  5. Lazipuppy Journeyman


    I think most people wouldn't argue that our sphere is very powerful, probably one of the most useful tools necro got, but it's power is heavily depends on the tank and situation, personally I don't use it in indoor zone like droga/chardok when I'm grouping(sorry I'm not that familiar with zones in current expansion, but you get the idea) , I used it all the time when I pettank molo though.

    I know it's hard for you to admit that necro is in trouble as you seen necro OP since about the start of the game(correct me if I get you wrong:you see necro lost some power and consider it even), but please let me remind you that lots of our strength are a compensation for the fact that we are not fit in grouping. Necro wasn't built for grouping, we are never supposed to be as good as a wizard(not even near) in a short duration fight, but where should we place ourselves if most group fight are so short and we can't solo/molo? Think about it and hopefully you can see the dilemma we are facing.

    Please stop thinking all of us are just whining about not being #1 dps or having highest base dmg dot, because it's simply not true, imaging necro were your only toon and you are stuck--you can't really solo and the most important contribution you can do in a group is dps, but your dps is barely higher then a tank, as a dps class.

    I understand it's hard to balance and is probably why devs are having hard time doing it(if they are still trying), but there are already a lot good advices out there, at least let us know why they can't work.

    Last but not least, I'm not asking for any nerf, generally, I hate nerf, some classes are doing well, that's good, let them stay that way, just give us some help to catch up.

    Sidenote: I just got my chanter to 107/18k aa, though my knowledge for enc is probably only kindergarten level and he's only half aa of my necro, I'm happy playing him while learning.
  6. IblisTheMage Augur

  7. seber Augur

    what is this OP for neco you talk about plz tell me ??
  8. Ibudin Augur

    Azorin for your 6 hour parse, not seeing the use of any burns..this makes me cry? To me it looks like you casted each of your 30 second dots about every 1 min and 30 seconds. This tells me you most likely had 1 mob at a time root rotting? Some suggestions would be - keep at least 3 mobs locked down at all times. When burns are up, - I'd keep up to 5 rotting at a time. Not sure what the purpose of your parse is, but thats not a parse to bench mark our DPS. A well geared, full raid buffed 110 rogue pet can do more DPS than your over all parse there (I realize it appears thats a 105 lvl parse), but then again goes back to what is the purpose of your parse?
    IblisTheMage and kizant like this.
  9. IblisTheMage Augur

    This is sounds more like the Chuck Norris style Necro I was thinking about. Change the game. Group pulls fast? No problem, group now pulls fast, but has 3-5 mobs root cooking as well.
    Ibudin likes this.
  10. Brohg Augur

    no. he's talking about soloing.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  11. Ibudin Augur

    Exactly, soloing.

    I do like the Chuck Norris style reference, that's about right.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  12. Brohg Augur

    Yes, of course. Because Chuck Norris is famous for casting efficient necromantic spells and waiting. Makes total sense.
    Felicite and IblisTheMage like this.
  13. Azorin Journeyman

    Point of the parse is to show crappy necro DPS using basic spell sets vs mostly trash. Sure you can inflat your DPS a bit by burning once in a whilem but I wanted to show what average necro DPS looks like. Yes I know what I am doing, I have played necro for 12+ years as main, top end raider, etc over the years. I am now a very casual solo/molo/box type player.

    I was in a tight area in Old Seb for root rot vs trash only mobs looking for zone rare drops - mana and space would not allow more than 1 (sometimes 2) mob(s) at a time. GoDR would require breaking root. I generally do not "burn" unless fighting a named and have a real tank (necro pet has no chance vs named or harder trash, so in dungeons I root rot what I can). Katta parse was just farming stuff for my alts, so never pushed dps or had much need to do so. First parse is mostly Anniv. Events (mostly moderate mobs with a few hard mobs mixed in). All above parses I consider lazy mode play (ie my normal group/molo/solo style). I never kill stuff just for xp (ie grind) - I clear named phs for items or quests/tasks mobs. When I do push my DPS - 40-50k is normally about max when burning but drops off fast when named take 5-10 min to kill.
  14. IblisTheMage Augur

    Dessert dry :-D

    Chuck Norris is able to solo anything!
  15. Cloudia Augur

    Chuck Norris tried to solo himself one time, sadly the mob poofed.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  16. fransisco Augur

    Well, it certainly frames necro dps as crap. But then EVERYONE's dps is crappy when they don't use any burn abilities. Its rather meaningless when if you compare it to other classes that are getting buffs and efficiently using thier abilities.
    kizant likes this.
  17. seber Augur

    well lets look at class had DoT revamp then look from EOK to ros

    1 ranger damg 13893 to 20579 and the Enc 27k to 47k that about 50% update from eok

    DoT revamp was last 3 dots then 10% so update like past ????

    2 the best neco dot eok 4243 to ros 5145 that maybe at best 12% update

    to me kind of like all call got DoT revamp got 2nd DoT revamp from eok to ros ??????

    and the neco only class did not get arua update been update ever yr from sod to eok what up that neco been hit really had nef last 12mo ...... amd with raid fire fouse we do 12k to at best maybe 90k

    I just not see the Update from Eok and ros are fair the DoT revamp has kill 90% of main neco give up on EQ or class now way go Dev ...........................
  18. menown Augur

    I understood about 12% of what you said.
    fransisco likes this.
  19. Vaeeldar Augur



    Yeah but even there it's not like wizzies, mages, and berserkers don't have burns, and I'd argue all of the above can spread them out far better/longer then necro.

    Frankly dot revamps happened with a lot of classes for a very obvious reason - dots were useless to them. They completely screwed up the revamp but it still goes back to a pain point of dots have no value in group game due to time of mob life. Necros have dots, dots more dots, oh and one skeleton call available to them in the group game. Necros need a dot revamp desperately. Until then there is no DPS class that a group would not be better off with other than necro.
  20. Lazipuppy Journeyman

    Yeah, I use frenzied devastation every time it's up, 55 counters and lasts a bit more then 6min, 12min recast, so basically a downtime less then 6min. Necro burn helps, but not very friendly in grouping situation, they were designed for longer duration fight.

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