More Tuning for Progression Servers: Raids and Player Pets

I agree,it's fear mongering,total speculation.Go to test, check it out or wait that they come to TLP.

Are you saying that DBG is participating in the fear-mongering of its gamers? Many of us are using their intended changes as a basis for our opinions. They intend to dial down the defensive values of pets. It will definitely have a more classic eq feel for pet classes. They also intend to add diminishing values to combat the number of pet classes used within a raid force.

For group play, pets will die more quickly. For raid play, both changes will have an impact where the pets will die faster and be less effective.

With all this said, it may change to properly align with their original intent.

I do not think it is their intent to make pets useless in the solo / group game.

What is your definition of useless? If you're indicating that a pet class should be stronger than half a 6-man group, then I would disagree. If you're saying that a pet class should be able to solo an equal level npc and have somewhat sufficient mana to handle another, then I would agree with you. In a group, this mage or necro could do much better than this. It's the utility that makes a pet class great. It doesn't mean that you will be a 1-man army.

Just need to setup the following rules for pets in groups & raids...

Groups

• Any additional pets beyond 2 lowers every pets effectiveness (dmg, hp, stats etc..) by 25%, bingo you've just stopped any box group as a 6 box group = pets all neg 100% effectiveness
• I mean really no real group has more than 3 pet classes, you can exclude charm from "pets"
• Doesn't harm single solo players, hurts the type of 6 box garbage of all mages everyone hates.

Raids

• Something similar just need to tune the % and the early cap and test.... would be harder.

a personal attack on how i play my mage is really not constructive Croak when all i'm trying to do is seek a solution to a major problem.
that said , third party programs were never a part of classic EQ and so the goalposts have been moved. to address this unfortunately major changes are going to have to be implemented. i for one would accept a 5 minute non-pet summoning debuff if it solved the problem of mage bot crews and pet walling in raids.

It was the same type of conversation when just before TDS launch on live there were some test on nerfing pets.Some were basically saying it's the end of the world.Looking back at it it didn't turn it that way whatsoever.Mages were threatening to quit that their class would be useless in current content.Again it didn't happen.I think the best thing is to relax, calm down and see how much impact this have on mages and necromancer before coming to the barricades.

The diminishing returns only applies to a raid scenario. For group play, you will only have to consider that your pet has a lower defensive value. Hopefully, this will make it more difficult to control a mess of npcs. Then, you would have to consider a proper tank, cc class, and a healer. Without the trinity, it's unpleasant and a hassle to manage. Lastly, mana will become an issue.

Mage armies: why cant they just write something that eliminates having multiple of the same class in group in raid zones? i really don't understand code is code... it would be hard for me to believe that this is totally an impossible task. really?

There's nothing wrong with having multiple accounts and identical classes within a group. That's not the real issue. There is an issue with the strength of the pets for necros and mages. This is the reason why players have 6+ pet classes to a player for grouping and raiding. If you dial down the strength of the pet and add diminishing values within a raid, you won't see a huge amount in either group or raid play. It won't make any sense because additional pets will only provide marginal contributions.

It would be funny to see these players have to frequently heal, rez, and do all sorts of things. A stark drop in efficiency and manageability would force them to try different class combinations that won't be similar to a party of 6 overpowered mage pets. They can't just run over a 6-man group or box 20+ mages for a raid. Funny!

The return on investment in 6+ mages will not cover the expenses anymore. You'll see less selling of no drop items and droppable items. It just won't pay for it anymore. The end result is better customer satisfaction across the board. More people will enjoy playing and paying. The marginal amount of players who exploit or take advantage of a game's flaws should never be considered as a stable or good source of revenue.

i agree. there's nothing wrong with having 6 mages in a group if there's a person clicking the buttons that run them. BUT EQ was never designed for 3rd party programs and THAT is where the problem lies. NOT in the pets. i have fond memories of taking down vindi when velious first came out with just all the mages on the server but every single one of them had a person playing it and not a program.
the problem of third party programs, which DBG in their infinite wisdom legalised, needs to be addressed without penalising genuine players.

I think the battle is lost for EQ. The question is whether they will bring their stance on it in EQ over to future games?

Third-party programs have always been around. On live servers, people are using 3rd party programs as well. However, you don't see raids or dungeons full of mages. They are "balanced" on live servers.

utterly incorrect.use of third party programs was a bannable offence for many years.

Actually, you're right about that. It shouldn't be allowed. However, I still stand by my prior statements regarding the marginalizing of pets. It won't matter how well they control their pets if they die too quickly and run oom. It'll be dead pets and 6+ dead mages.

I prefer that pets can tank an equal level normal npc to a certain degree. Pets should never be able to handle 2+ even levels without a mage blowing through mana to handle it. That would be balanced and fair. In this case, a group of mages wouldn't be able to constantly overtake and sustain this type of play indefinitely.

i guess my pet had a sickly childhood then because there's no way he can handle 2 even con mobs without a goodly amount of healing :/

Even con to the pet, not you, I believe they mean - assuming that's what they mean like I think, they absolutely can.

You proposed a change to mage pets based on your play-style of running like a headless (petless) chicken to zone every time a pet dies.

That made your play-style relevant and essential to the discussion.

It was possibly the most irresponsible self-destructive nerf suggestion I have ever encountered based upon what seemed a limited knowledge or experience playing the mage class in different scenarios, especially with weaker pets.
Such a nerf would have little to no effect on pet groups whether controlled by 1 person or 6 during early expansions.
It would drastically effect a solo mage totally removing 1 soloing option from the table.

Again your play-style comes into play... your pet doesn't have to be healed or survive. Mages used to survive adds by chaining pets.

yay more personal attacks. thanks Croak.
seriously , if you can't say anything constructive then get back under your bridge mr.troll.

lets make pets susceptible to fear again, have their own resist tables and no longer be indifferent to everything they run past .. then we will see who is good at EQ and who isn't