More Tuning for Progression Servers: Raids and Player Pets

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Roshen, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Roshen Brand Manager

    The team has been reviewing your feedback and looking more closely at the numbers for raids and mages on the progression server. Based on this, we have some balance changes coming up that we’re pushing to test today.

    Plane of Sky: It’s a beat, and raid content shouldn’t get easier based on the number of mages you can bring. We’re retuning Plane of Sky (and all Progression server raid content to a small degree) to be friendlier towards a bigger range of raid compositions.

    Player Pets: Summoned companions are pretty strong. We’ve brought magician and necromancer pets more in line with how they were in classic EverQuest, and we plan to buff to them the levels they are on live servers when Lost Dungeons of Norrath goes live on progression servers.

    The strength of player pets is pretty noticeable in raid content. To solve this, raid targets on progression servers have been given a new ability called "Mark of the Old Ways." This ability targets magician and necromancer pets and will reduce the melee damage dealt and increase the melee damage received by 2% for every 3 pets attacking the raid target. This change is intended to provide diminishing returns to the effectiveness of summoned companions as compared to players against these raid targets.

    Full test notes can be viewed here: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/test-update-08-12-15.225907/

    If you want to copy one of your characters over for use on the test server, use /testcopy

    These changes are slated to go live in the August patch, currently scheduled for Weds, August 19. These changes are on the test server now, and we welcome any feedback you have after checking these things out for yourselves!
  2. Banuvan Augur

    Can we have a list of said raid targets? Does it include the minis in hate? Golems in fear? All mobs in hate/fear?

    Don't get me wrong. Great change. Just looking to see how encompassing it is.
  3. Numiko Augur

    do SK pets (who use the same spells as necro's to summon), shaman pets and Enchanter animations also include in the 2 for 3 totals?
  4. Vaclav Augur

    2% per 3 seems a little conservative on pet stats, but otherwise pretty awesome. And honestly I can see why you'd want to be conservative on it, but 0.66% effectively per pet seems light.
  5. Nydan_silent Journeyman

  6. Greymere Augur

    This change have any impact on other Pet using classes? You said it would remain till LDoN, have you tested the change using Beastlord Warder pets? Will Shadow Knight, Shaman, Beastlord or Enchanter Animations or charmed pets somehow impact Mage or Necro pet DPS if they are used?
  7. Moonie New Member

    Good stuff! I don't think it will stop the mage armies but it might slow them down some. I have nothing against mages, I play one but if it helps folks have a chance to camp their own loot with integrity, I'm all for that.
    Miss_Jackie, Fallfyres and Simone like this.
  8. Lateryn Augur


    I thought so too, but I will wait and see. Considering there is also a base nerf(bringing them to more inline with classic) it might be enough.

    Might just mean you take longer and summon more pets in the end though.

    Really depends how what exactly the following is(in numbers/%):

    Player Pets: Summoned companions are pretty strong. We’ve brought magician and necromancer pets more in line with how they were in classic EverQuest, and we plan to buff to them the levels they are on live servers when Lost Dungeons of Norrath goes live on progression servers.
    Simone likes this.
  9. Quazie Elder

    I think they have a hard line to balance, too little and mage armies are still legit, too much and you risk making real mages less and less valuable on raids. In any raid through PoP you would want 3 mage mains anyways for mod rods and such. More than that is overkill.
    Simone likes this.
  10. Silv Augur

    Were Mage pets ever a decent part of their DPS in classic? Just wondering if teetering towards the "too much" side would really matter with pets. It's also only for raid targets [more or less].
    Simone likes this.
  11. Vaclav Augur


    Not on any raid I was in - due to finicky pet control I remember most raids up through Velious starting with "Kill your pets".

    But might have been a different experience for others.

    Regardless I can understand them worrying about people feeling a character is completely useless if they go too far.
    MBear, Alpha_Ragefire, Simone and 3 others like this.
  12. Sorelia New Member

    The 2% increment amounts to a minor inconvenience to pet armies on Classic content - the bosses will only take a little longer to kill. You'd need closer to an 8% increment to come close to stopping a pure pet army on a God/Dragon, assuming that is the purpose of this change.

    There is also the idea of phasing in pet groups to circumvent the change - you can simply rotate in groups of pets so they do more DPS per pet over the course of the entire fight.
  13. Foo Chow New Member

    It's a good start, thanks for your efforts Daybreak!
    Simone likes this.
  14. Roshen Brand Manager

  15. Hateseeker Augur

    And what about reducing the variance? Now that the rotation is in, a huge variance is more harmful than good.

    Seconding this as it's pretty important.
  16. Vaclav Augur


    "Fixed" spawn time isn't the only option to help that concept - even just narrowing the spawn windows would help rotations be less dysfunctional.

    Was ANY window size adjustment shot down as well? 20+ hr windows like current are terribly hard to fit into a schedule (like rotations inherently are) if they were down to something like 4-6 hrs the mechanic wouldn't nearly be at odds with the rotations that were requested by Daybreak.
  17. Kattahn Elder

    This wont do anything to petwalling. 20% less dmg done @ 30 pets, against nerfed bosses. Will still be easily pet wallable.
  18. Lateryn Augur

    Also depends on the base nerf to pets. They said they are bringing them more inline to classic. So their DPS/mitigation will be nerfed outright.

    The raid nerfs are just on top of that.
    Simone likes this.
  19. Vaclav Augur


    Test Update reads that it brings their DEFENSE in line with old school - nothing of their DPS outside of the "Mark of the Old Ways" stuff.
  20. Kattahn Elder

    From the patch notes, it will just be adjusting their defensive abilities. Their dmg output should stay the same(mage pets were still hitting for 50ish in classic)

    "Returned the defensive skill values of level 1-65 magician and necromancer pets to the values they had prior to the May 2015 patch" is the change