there are 3 classes that are primary DPS. if any of the other classes compete with these you might as well delete them. i am dead serious. if you can get the same and then some survival / utility whatever. then why wouldnt you???? why would you go for a DPS only class if it doesnt shine at that?.. I only focus on DPS, atleast i can say i am....... Average at that.....
I love how monks undersell how amazing there utility is yes mend, fd, a way better mitigation table are utility. If monks are equal dps to a rogue/ber why play a rogue/ber ? Answer that.
What mobs are people parsing lately?... (my guild has beaten the expansion including t3 and I'm not seeing this parity people believe exists.)
It's probably still the case that on 1 min burns berserkers *in and optimised situation* can beat monks in the same duration and the same optimal situation for them. However this omits two key factors. 1) 90% of fights aren't killable in 1 min. Maybe even 99%! 2) Optimised raid groups aren't necessarily a given except in the uber guilds where they cherry pick from the LFGuild pool, and even when optimal group it seems even rarer to find people with sufficient talent to synchronise perfectly. All that basically boils down to one thing - the theoretical maximum dps vs the typical dps are very very different, and so typically monks are now ahead. It may not loolk this way in RoI and a few other guilds, but I'd be pretty confident it's the case for most. Now this does not mean I want to nerf monks! I fully supported them getting an upgrade, and still do. They should be ahead of beastlords obviously. I also agree with the "all dps are interchangeable" statement, but interchangeable does not mean identical - there's a bit of wiggle room sure and on some encounters I expect sturdier dps to do more than weaker ones due to having to duck out of the fight less (ie monks), while on others I'd expect the weaker but (in theory) higher dps to do better. I think realistically ber, rog, mnk should all be within 10% of each other on both sustained and burn, but maybe some favouring one style over another and the penalties applied to rog/ber meaning we're the ones generally slightly ahead. The main issue here though is all melee vs caster. We simply get trampled on both burns and sustained. It also seems the non-discing period for all melee and caster is radically different. Wiz for example slaughter trash mobs and seem able to do 50k-60k dps on whatever they like whenever they like as just a "background dps" without apparently putting in much effort. For me that's a pretty hefty disc (probably the best infact unless ADPS is being done too). I'd like to see melee sustained for everyone get a substantial hike. My fear is the devs won't like it because it would make group XP so much easier, but that doesn't leave many alternatives to achieve balance again.
I dont mind them being interchangable either. if its over the course of alot of events, some events a monk will survive where a rog / bers will die. therefor on the events where we survive we should do more, some events bers will have premature ending of burn (25% chance), and some events support doesnt synch perfectly (is also the case the highest level guilds), bers should be rewarded for this. Where there might be some imbalancing between melees the big problem is steamrolling casters atm...
Berserker = no utility, marginal DPS, poor at soloing, not an asset on raids. Solution = Give us a broken disc, then make it darn near useless. Break our one decent burn combo. Help?
Augmented frenzy isn't useless id say. From my parses its decent dps just no where near what we needed or what other classes seen in dps upgrades. This is a lost expansion we might as well accept it. No way we can get our dps from where it is now to the 200k burst dps other classes are doing or what certain classes are doing in sustained. Our war cry has little effect, cry havoc actually got a downgrade (same effect more endurance doesn't last as long) even before that it was a minimal increase in dps a few hundred at best. We want upgrades ? its time to start sending parses to prove we're behind gather as much data as you can. screw the parse dummys its time to start PMing real event parses from real guilds.
Yes. and no cherry picking. just someone in the high end guilds send all the parses with class names. We can atleast say we tried 100 times to tell about the imbalances, but from the savage spirit fix (and nerf) and the augmented frenzy fix (and nerf) i think it looks like devs are giving us the finger for being annoying.... We just wouldnt be annoying if we were being heard =/
I did back at level 80 when I parsed all abilities and studied the results to verify precisely what happens. Thief's Eyes claims to be 5% increased chance to hit. In reality it parsed out as 5% fewer misses. Back then my base dps was 1624, and with TE it was 1668 - so 2-3% difference. These days I expect it's lessened, but can't be sure. Obviously it also does nothing during certain discs too. It'd be interesting, and easy, to do a new parse to see what it does now. Infact... (let's do it)
There are too many unparseable fights, or fights where people can hide from parses (eg DoT damage messages are centred on the casters and not the mobs, or melee hits are centred on mob but we're sometimes oor of messages due to large hitbox and lethal AE Rampage). However for everything else I agree - we should send parses *and* group makeup (ie raid dump).
A very quick (5min parse each way) of with and without thief's eyes just shows me this needs a LOT more parse data. I was less dps with it ;-). Accuracy rates went up though (79.7 to 80.3), but that's basically lost in the noise. I think (if my stats memory serves me right) those figures are +/- 0.4 for 1 s.d., so the difference is in no way significant. It looks like I'll need about 9 hour parses to get confident to 3 s.d. of a difference of 0.1% hit rate. (Again, maybe my math is wrong - it's been a while!) Anyway short answer, for typical fight durations TE is essentially unparseable.
Thiefs eye, Cry Havoc, Bloodlust aura all are almost useless now days especially cry havoc and thiefs eye. If I remember right Cry Havoc is a 100% increase to your base crit rate not your crit rate after AAs/buffs so before AAs if you have .5% chance to crit well now its 1%. Just hypothetical numbers id have to parse a 100 zerker with no AAs to see what his base crit rate actually is. Thiefs eye is a 5% chance to hit but don't weapon skills increase chance to hit ? How much could it be helping when you have 600 + 1hp or 2hs already ?
They are quick to fix Berserkers when they have a broken ability in their favor (Augmented Frenzy, was it really that game breaking that Devs considered bringing down the servers to fix it). They take their time when Berserkers have broken abilities that lessen their DPS (see Dying Blow, Decapitation, and basically everything now that had 2hpiercing added to it).
Thanks and was what I expected. All melee dps classes have a similar 68 disc and all are pretty much garbage that can't be parsed to beat the Random Number Generator, as it would appear. So now, with the change to Glyph of Cata, what classes are left unaffected (still get a huge gain during a burn)? Necro, Wizard, Mage, Bst? Most rangers I know use a different one, as a rogue I pretty much stopped using it until after 3rd spire wears off. For zerkers we only have 1 semi-active one so couldn't comment without grasping at straws. Monks I assume are in same boat as rogues, correct me if wrong. 7th vet reward, same question. Reason for this to look at things that exist in game that are rewarding some classes while neglecting others, that could possibly be changed to effect all classes to the same degree.
For me its obvious something is wrong when you parse casters who're just casting spells except for on named. Basically casters can just cast the spells they have and not burn anything on trash. Go parse a berserker who's not discing on trash for a few hours you wont like the result.
I believe a zerker that doesn't burn mobs, and have a bard / shammy etc. will hit around 20K DPS without discs. a wizard i believe can hit 30K quite reliably without discs for a sustained time without burning through mana, and thats without support.
Agree, but think the problem is with melee in general in those regards. Watching casters parse anywhere between 30-60k w/out burning says it all really. While melee are in the 12-25k no disc range, absolutely no disc with 0 support closer to the 12-15k area. Which brings me back to my original post about the perm shm epic + 100h comment for sustained issue and also help with the whole support issue. Doing that however would diminish the difference between sustained and burns by a pretty large margin though, so would create the other area we'd need some bones thrown our way as a whole (all melee classes, not 1 vs 1). For that they could simply really just change duration/refresh and a few values on % on our bigger discs + making glyphs/7th all work the same. I realize it's tricky for the devs, but they opened the can of worms already. Without asking for nerfs, options are somewhat limited for a way to accomplish this without seeing a mass exodus from the game.
Looking at differences, doubling all forms of weapon dmg could be one other way... While also keeping a decent enough difference between sustained and burn. Or at least create a better starting point...
Berserkers scale well with weapons, so double weapons would overpower us obviously, but i agree its big things they need to change, not small incremental changes.
