Looking for clarification on 3rd party software

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whiteviperx, May 29, 2021.

  1. Whiteviperx New Member

    I understand that these things have been discussed in multiple threads, but I couldn’t find a single thread that discusses all of these.

    I recently asked the leader of my guild if we should suggest to our guild member to use certain keywords for those of us that use 3rd party software to show an overlay of certain important messages that otherwise might be missed. Like AFK or invis dropping or buff is fading, etc.

    He replied that as a guild we cannot support any 3rd party software usage that may or may not violate the EULA.

    So I decided to search around on Google and the many forums that Everquest has inspired over the past 22 years and try to find an answer that clearly states what is and is not allowed.

    I found the following post.

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/how-can-i-tell-if-someone-is-hacking.3168/page-2#post-40243

    In the post it says:

    “I'm not gonna create a list of approved programs, however, I will say that common sense is more than enough to tell if you are cheating.
    Parsing - Not cheating
    Item Collectors - Not cheating
    Program that has autofire button (and you are still in the general vicinity of the keyboard) - Not cheating
    Swimming on auto-run into a corner to raise up swimming - Not cheating
    Cheating - not allowed.
    If it's reasonable and not unfair it's not cheating. If it gives you an unfair advantage and allows you to do things that can't be normally done in game it's cheating.”

    Among other things, it does not mention anything about an overlay window as mentioned at the beginning of this post. It also doesn’t mention such software that allows you to play multiple accounts on the same screen, boxing, with hotkeys that allow for fast switching between screens and macros that automate some of the processes.

    The EULA can be found at:

    https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/230629007-What-are-the-EverQuest-Rules-of-Conduct-

    Item # 11 is the closest rule to something in regards to any of these questions. In layman's terms it means that once the information has been written on your computer, e.g., your log and INI files, Rule # 11 doesn’t apply.

    The reason I have not mentioned any specific software is not that I don’t have my favorites, but because I don’t want replies to be about one software versus another but about the scope of what a 3rd party software can do to help make the game more fun, more informative and easier to maintain for an everyday player like myself.

    If you have other specific 3rd party type software that I have not mentioned here feel free to reply. Keep in mind to describe what the software does not what the name of the software is.


    I’m not asking for personal opinions at first but rather an official reply from the Daybreak Company.
  2. Soulbanshee Augur

    You have your sources, that's it. Starting the 1000th thread isn't going to give a new result. And there's also forum rules for discussing 3rd party software which you apparently know because you are obviously avoiding typing software names.
  3. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    There is no answer and there won't be an answer, because they have specifically said they don't want to box themselves into a corner by being specific.

    The point is, if you are cheating, regardless of HOW or via WHAT program, you're cheating. Some programs have no real capacity for cheating and are therefore allowed (like GINA or parsers). Some programs potentially COULD be used to cheat if they were modified to do so.

    Others have a high capacity for cheating or have cheating built in to the point that they have specifically banned/suspended people for using it in the past due to sniffing programs, regardless if you actually cheat with it.

    And guilds will do what guilds do. If you are caught using M Q 2 in my guild, for example, you're gone. It has happened before, probably happen again.
  4. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Probably the closest thing you can get to an official answer regarding I-S-Boxer: --> https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...r-code-for-rizlona.266957/page-6#post-3924380

    It depends on the server though...but for normal boxing servers it should be ok. Meaning, not truebox servers
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  5. CatsPaws Devil's Advocate

    Since the dawn of the game this question has not had a definitive or official answer.

    Your post is no different.
    Skuz, Corwyhn Lionheart and Nennius like this.
  6. Raccoo Augur

    My rule of thumb, if you see people streaming Live EQ with 3rd party visible, without being anon, those things are fine. I S Boxer, Gamparser, EQlogparser, GINA, are all ok to use.

    If people have to sneak and hide their character names, use prerecorded videos, or play on their private servers to showcase their 3rd party program, it is definitely not ok to use.

    Also, if mentioning a certain program by name on the forum gets the entire thread deleted...that is definitely a good indication to not use.

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-if-someone-is-hacking.3168/page-2#post-40243
    That looks like it was copied from somewhere else, but it does look like the creator of Gamparse also asked if his other programs would be ok.
    Gamtexttriggers was a precurser to GINA iirc.
    It looks like he got this response.
  7. Bigstomp Augur

    I can't speak for the devs, but I sorta read it as:
    If you press a button to make something happen, it's good.
    If you don't press a button and your software makes it happen, that's not good.
    Tucoh, Nennius and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  8. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    I've got something closer on I.S. Boxer:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/i-s-boxer-is-this-illegal.800/#post-8866
    If you follow the link to that quote, Piestro's name is not in red, so you might think he is just another player. However, he used to be EQ Senior Community Relations Manager and made that post in his official duties at that time.

    He also said:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...ng-a-no-go-for-now.203937/page-2#post-3000154
    You can read what I've assembled on the subject of what is allowed here: https://everquest.fanra.info/wiki/Utilities#Legality

    For more on what is not allowed to be done in-game see also https://everquest.fanra.info/wiki/Game_rules

    Of course, true box and other "special" servers have different rules, I just try to cover the standard servers.

    To answer your original question more clearly, as a player and not a representative of Daybreak/Darkpaw, I can say that overlays are fine, as long at they only show information that you are openly given by the game. An "overlay" that, for example, gives you the ability to track mobs when you are not a tracking class is totally not allowed and will get you banned.

    Everyone uses GINA. Frankly, if it was banned most guilds would have to quit the game. It would be literally impossible for my guild to do any raids without it.
  9. Metanis Bad Company

    And keep in mind that EQ is under new ownership. As such, every old policy is subject to review and revocation at any time. I don't think anything has changed much at the pointy end yet but it could, especially when they implement the new launcher.
    Nennius, Corwyhn Lionheart and Skuz like this.
  10. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    We can never say never but the new CEO make a statement that was pretty clear that the current EQ team is staying in charge and the new company was there to provide them with resources, not micro manage.
  11. Jhinx Whimsical Chinchilla

    Are you in the same building as the computer running your character? If not, you might be about to get a punch in the pancreas.
  12. Metanis Bad Company

    That is exactly what all new owners say. It's to calm the workers down before the storm of change which inevitably occurs as they try to pinch pennies.
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    DakPaw will never publicly endorse any specific software officially as 100% okay to use that it does not have direct and exclusive control over.

    AKA - any and all 3rd party programs can be okay to use one day & not okay the next, what the programs DO matters more than what they are called.

    The future situation may be different, we will get a replacement for the launcher with EverQuest's integration into the 4game platform and that has built-in anti-cheat tools which will potentially change everything on this 3rd party software front.
    Nennius and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  14. Svann2 The Magnificent

    lock the stupid thread because thread is stupid
    Zynt and Andarriel like this.
  15. Angahran Augur

    Basic info I have heard several times -
    If something simply reads log files, e.g. GINA, parsers, tradeskill trackers, etc. Allowed.
    Running EQ in a window, e.g.i-s-b-o-x-e-r, i-n-n-e-r-s-p-a-c-e, etc Allowed.

    Doing things that the EQ client cannot do, directly reading network packets, obvious cheating (showing every mob in a zone, showing a mobs loot before it's dead, warping, ista-killnig mobs, etc) - not allowed
    Jumbur likes this.
  16. Tatanka Augur

    Good synopsis, I'd just add one minor change.....

    If you press a button to make something legitimate happen, it's good

    By that, I mean, no warping, no auto-facing or leashing, or any of those other actions which have no way to occur while just playing straight-up EQ.
  17. Solanli Journeyman

    Imagine this ... They will ban a whole group of people for exploiting a loyalty vendor bug that the devs put in the game accidentally. (reason being ... it messes with EQ's economy due to the bag of plats)

    YET ...

    They do almost nothing to stop AFK botters who are farming damn near 1kpp per mob in COV expansion. (also inflating the economy).

    And there is no question that DPG knows who is botting / loading .dll's into their interface. No question they can't easily figure out who is AFK botting via automated cheating software.

    They just choose not to.
  18. Warpeace Augur

    Good luck.

    They sprinkle no 3rd party software along with well you have to be at the keyboard and able to reply to afk checks. Then add in using /say that gets lost in all the npc /say spam is clear as mud right?

    Mostly seems like use whatever you want and reply to afk checks...also don't use ghost kill or warping , blah blah blah. Then maybe you wont get suspended for a week. I guess you could play around with FTP accounts and see what gets you suspended / banned then someone could post with results:cool:
  19. Solanli Journeyman


    When will this be taking place?
  20. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    The CEO of EG7 has said that this will happen, but he did not say when.

    So I'd just say "Soon(tm)"
    Metanis likes this.