Lockjaw rotation shattered by Faceless - Full FFA time begins?

No can't blame them. We can blame them for breaking rotation though. There would be zero problem if Faceless managed to have a legitimate vote with everyone there and won it. If that were the case then everyone in MM would have had to accept it now wouldn't they? Instead, a route that breach rotation was choosen. Though yea don't blame anyone in faceless wanting efreeti FFA, only the leadership that broke the rules and those who followed him knowingly.

That wasn't an admittance to that there are MM spinter guilds though. That was him making a statement that you wrongly inferred to admitting to it.

Why I had a positive view of him or why I do no longer? The latter should be obvious since his guild just killed the Innoruuk my guild was up in rotation for, why should I like him after he did that to us? Before I had a decent view of him since he always seemed willing to help watch our guild kill stuff to qualify for the rotation and had never wronged us before. Again that was then, hard to like him after he decided to kill the mob my guild was up in rotation for and then not being the least apologetic about it.

Which are you calling the accused? Your statement is a bit confusing. Though it really is a hypocritical action to act now instead of when the first rule was broken in the first place.

Not the mention the accused ,if you mean faceless, not only acknowledged their actions but boasted about it.

I thought the attorney comment was witty and it was meant to make someone chuckle. I know I chuckled.

Dima of course isn't the only one who can be emotional or upset by something. Isn't he the highlight of tonight's discussion? You keep asking me to talk about Darth and everyone else but they aren't part of tonight's discussion right now.

They've been silent their part is already done the spotlight is on Dima right now.


You're getting a bit too emotional for my liking and are overlooking too many facts to the point of where I need to keep repeating what I say. I don't like repeating what I say it wastes time, something we all have a limited amount of.

I am not dima nor am I directly his psychiatrist. I am everyone's psychiatrist- I studied it in college and it is part of who I am. I will tear apart everyone's actions and find the root cause of why they did what they did. To ask me not to psychologically assess another person is impossible. I do it the second I meet you, the second a word leaves your mouth. I'll repeat myself, it is part of who I am.

If you want a past example of people acting emotional, Darth deleted Forsaken Order from the entire rotation sheet because Endtime posted a Screenshot that revealed he used . - May I ask what purpose bringing up the fact that Darth was emotional serves? What did we accomplish aside from wasting my time and yours with that useless piece of information?

That isn't what tonight is about, tonight is about DIMA and the actions that lead up to this and that followed. Pretty sure when I clicked on this post the first post by Dupre was all about DIMA not "other people" and "previous emotional spats" so stop trying to take the spotlight off of Dima he tried very hard to get it right now.

Whether or not I or you or anything thinks it was necessary HE did. In the context of this argument that is all that matters.




Other than that I don't know what you want from me. I've explained what needed to be explained and you keep asking me to re explain it differently through various insults. We're getting no where here.

Question. If it was NOT your guild next up for Inny, would you feel the same way/would you be able to see more logically the point he was trying to make?

I understand where you're coming from and definitely can't wrong you for being mad about that. I really do hope he apologizes and makes it up to you when this is all said and done. Maybe that will be a step in the right direction to mending the fence he smashed down tonight by killing Inny out of rotation.

You change your decision based on the reaction of an action taken. Though what about your guild leader's decisions? What about many other guild leader's decisions. This all begins when Faceless called that meeting to break the rotation. From there the guild leaders neither take the appropriate action (Dima sure as hell would have which is why they were excluded go figure), nor alert another guild to what ANYONE can see as a possible rotational catastrophe. You can dislike MM, but no guild in the rotation can truly claim they are in the right based on their actions. Not to mention when the inaction that was taken by the guild leaders is fixed (aka exactly what Dima's counter proposal is) then MM will make up for what happened (again Dima's proposal covers that too).

You're right. The spot light is on and the proof is clear to see as to what has occurred. I feel that Dima's counter proposal is fair to an extreme considering Faceless' actions in all of this. Though it's more than that. Each and every guild leader at the moment is also in the spotlight because of what has been posted the last few days and in fact right here in the post. I'll say it again Apathy is the sin that showed itself the most in this situation.

They wouldnt exactly of had to accept it. With no enforcement they could have just opted out of the rotation like they just did.

That is true. Though there I don't honestly believe that most of us would take part in breaking the rotation had the rules not been broken and instead that FFA change was done correctly. We'd be like "Man.. why the hell did they agree to that", but going FFA was a choice that was made when the rules were broken by faceless multiple times and the other guilds failed to act.

As for a bias if you check my post history I have always been against the rotation as a whole.

I think it's foolish to dictate who can and can't raid and would love to see the entire rotation crumble into ashes. When daybreak announce rotations were done I partied a little.

Dima is pro rotation.
Darth... well I don't know where he stands entirely. Nor do I know where other guilds stand on the matter only those that make their stances known to the public.

The reason you notice a bias towards Dima is because our interests are aligned in this circumstance.

Whether or not he has ulterior motives, whether or not he is trying to tweak the rotation to his own liking the changes he wants to make are to allow MORE guilds to see content. Darth hasn't said whether or not he wants the rotation to be abolished, I asked him what his intentions are and he simply said he had multiple ideas atm. If he publicly said he wanted the rotation gone, well, I'd be more on his side but what Darth wants right now is for Faceless to down as many raids as possible. I'm not a member of faceless so this is against my best interests.

I have said I do not care about loot. My only interest in Everquest is seeing each expansion in era. That's it. I've told both Darth and Dima this. Whomever advocates for more people to see the content in era I am obviously going to align with.

I've also had past spats with Darth as he went off slandering my guild saying we were an MM alt guild. Tonight he apologized for that because he spoke with people who have known me for years who were able to confirm I am not infact an MM alt guild or associated with them in anyway.

That may be why you see bias here. Because truth be told I am emotionally compromised when it comes to Darth, I don't like him therefore I am much more willing to go against him at every turn.

If our interests line up though, you better bet I will side with Darth.

At this current point what he wants and what I want are two totally different things. Tonight until this post I never once said what I wanted, only explained what was going on.

Based on this post though, you should have a firm grasp of why you see a bias with my actions.

This right here is everything wrong with EQ(or some would say right).

You and FI leaders do not like each other at all. Both of you are guilty of being complete douches to each other, screwing each other over, stealing rotation mobts etc.(Hell this all still goes on today)

These things pretty much make rotation talks/agreements moot and really only lasted this long because of DBGs enforcement for a while. They would of collapsed far earlier if they had not done so, especially given the behavior of FI/MM.

As much as it sucks for everyone, FI has most of the leverage in a "non enforced world"(unless every guild worked together, which is nigh impossible). No one can deny it. And because its not enforced anymore, the top guild can usually demand certain things, because there is no consequence. Thus you see why MiM/AD just said screw it and didn't care to challenge efreeti FFA, since the risk to the rest of their targets was high.

Were FI completely arrogant about it? Yeah, but that is pretty much how every top guild is. Not to mention a behavior shared by many MM members.

It was funny(and sad) to watch Yawg/darth become 10 year olds. Though it was only at you and MM, which given your history both previously and on this server is not shocking. That entire chat log is you both taking shots at each other, with the only difference being the manner in which they were carried out(childish vs eloquent snob).

FI makes a threat, and you decide to up the anti and threaten larger. So instead of the problem being between two dumb guilds, you take it out on someone who had zero to do with it all. In a sense you just threw gasoline on a fire.

Honestly I feel bad for Dupree. I can't imagine sitting in that channel and reading all that constant bickering all day. Neither side able to grow up and move on.

I give props to depree and actually yukan in this regard. They realize what EQ is and there is no such thing as "everyone can get a share". They realize their capabilities and make decisions based on that. It's a situation, but people have to realize not everyone gets everything. There is a such thing as #1, #2, #3, #4 etc. There's nothing wrong with not being number one. I've been there for years in EQ. You don't whine about it or try to force others down to your level. You either man up and improve to get as high as you can and content with where you are. Thus they decide that keeping the vast majority of their rotation and giving up efreeti, is better then the chance of losing it all. Not to mention they can still have a chance at efreeti, as its ffa.

Just stop. You are MM. This is like saying republicans saying they support a republicans deal..You're a sheep. You can't think beyond Dima/MM. You are incapable of independent thought. And yes same thing applies to FI members(if they had a post history like yours). We get it, its the company line, no need to tell us constantly.

None of this is really fair. They need to not play forum tag and instead get together and hash it out like adults without arguing and doing immature crap to each other. That will get no one anywhere in this situation.

I do not see a peaceful resolution to this situation. Based on Dima's post he has no interest in giving in to FIs demands and I would poo my own pants if Darth came in here and said ok he'll do what Dima said.

The only thing I see happening is the rotation going out the window, all guilds making Dima and his guild a pariah and all out war until Kunark and beyond.

If Lockjaw is the Titanic it just hit the iceberg. We are sinking and there is no stopping it because the chance of everyone here working together again is slim to none.

Find a life preserver and hold onto it for dear life.

Why sho

Why is the responsibility of other guilds to take action to benefit Modest Man or to advocate on their behalf? Dima being there wouldn't have changed the outcome of the meeting, only have made it drag on much longer than anyone would have liked and come to the same outcome. If Modest Man was on better terms with Faceless Insanity I'm sure they would have been invited. Why they were on bad terms with Faceless Insanity is the result of Modest Man's actions so they only have themselves to blame.

Look in the mirror before you start trying the put the blame on other guilds.

I deleted most of what you said just to make the quote smaller, but rekias said you have yet to make a good point all night.

Well this entire post of yours was a perfect point. Where has this been all night? Why have you been arguing with me for the past hour when based on this post we share the exact same feelings towards the entire subject we just approached it completely differently.

You took action through inaction is what he was saying.

And your action caused last night to happen.

Modest Man made the decision to kill our Innoruuk, they are 100% responsible for their actions. It's time for them to man up about it instead of trying to pass the buck.

Because I blame both sides. I call out both sides. I don't hide their decisions by "Emotion", nor do I call any of their acts/decisions "necessary" because none of them were. You say "mm was wrong" then you add a "BUT". That's the problem, there is no but. There is no "its ok cause hes mad". No. Sorry. We're all grown adults(hopefully) , those excuses are long gone.

Also your "rationalization" was for some reason only applied to one side. If I agreed with your excuse at all(I don't obviously), it would be applied to both sides. Your way just gave it a very bad and obvious slant.

I really have stated everything I could multiple times over. The original post is in fact heavily hypocritical in it's stance. Seeing as there are a complete and total disregard to rule breaches made by Faceless and then suddenly now they act when they simply watched instead of acted before? There have been many troubling signs that no one worked the courage up to confront faceless with the exception of Dima when he found out what occurred. Unfortunately being forced to confront them alone means that the choices are limited. Dupre said he wanted nothing to do with the spat. Though as a rotational leader he and everyone else is directly involved in the rotations health. You know I would have laughed if all of the other guilds worked together when this first started with me posting the logs and then came back with a meeting for MM and FI and said something along the lines "Faceless your actions aren't allowed and Efreeti is not FFA as per the rules, bring it up at a proper meeting and we WILL vote on this. If you don't like it then go FFA against the rotation."

Edit: I just realized I may have mistook that post as directed to me. It doesn't show quotes of blocked peeps haha I really should sleep.