I Surrender

I don't disagree with you at all there.
The peeps from ROI, Triton, or in Drogba's case RotE, can likely smoke these group events with "borrowed" toons. But let's face it; We're still dealing with the very "best of the best" players. Somewhere EQ evolved to be a lot more "twitchy" - and that ability to twitch has filtered down from the raid game to the group game. What I still maintain is that the people who think that Damsel of Decay is suitable for a group mission as it sits, forget what it's like to be a grouper in the real world.
As it is - with the uber guilds dominating the beta testing (and tuning) of raids - the "real people" who raid these events behind them suffer enough. To see this filtering down to the group game is "disturbing".
-Rat
PS to Drogba. I know you, therefore I know you're by far the best SK on Cazic. (much as Duhbeast is to the BL class). Nobody with a brain would NOT want to group with you.
You're an exceptional player with a super attitude. However not every group doing progression can be fortunate enough know the likes of you two. LOL.
I'm trying to remember the "little people" here. As for me, I'll beat it. We almost won it the other day with a group split between CTA and RotE in members. (I was the Bokon wrangler in a couple attempts)
-R

100% support non-progression or post-progression missions that are intentionally "sledgehammer to the face" difficulty.

This is where you can put the brutal mechanics that make half of your group useless with fear spells, big DS, manadrains, melee/casting slow, long duration stuns, AE charm, etc. Heck, throw in some randomness just so you can't go in with a tailored group. I might even demarcate these with the no-merc flag. Either way, definitely add some chase items like attuneable type 8 gear.

Standard prog missions on the other hand should be generally pretty forgiving of random handfuls of players using merc or two (especially at the lower tiers). I don't mind dying a couple of times to figure out an event, but if they require burning long-refresh cooldowns AND getting lucky on a first-tier event, that is just irritating.

For static named I do like to see some variance. Mobs that drop key slots like BP templates, tank shields and pet earrings should probably be "tier and a half". While I understand tuning can be a moving target to some degree, I roll my eyes when I see "tier minus two" and "tier plus three" named in the same zone. It's particularly frustrating when one of your key items drops off of the latter while the same slot for a different class drops from the former.

Generally agree. At this point tho we're already getting so few missions that it's almost hard to differentiate between "progression" and everything else.

I'm not really sure what the dev time invested for group missions vs solo tasks is, but if I were running the show over there I'd definitely redistribute resources to be more heavily group-mission focused.

I think they did a decent job of that this time with TBM.
Many of the "solo tasks" pick up and "operate" in the group mission model.
-R

The only "progression" that really matters in this expansion is to get the mirror. That can be done with pretty much any random group in less than 30 minutes. And even that can be bypassed with campfires. All the merc and partisan tasks are also really easy. The harder group tasks are limited to Heroes achievements. There is no zone or gear slots blocked by not completing all the group missions. Just check boxes in your achievements list. You don't need to unlock any gear by completing all progression beyond the 60ac aug you get for completing all achievements for all missions. That aug is the only bonus loot you get for doing all the harder stuff. The gear that drops from the harder missions is identical to the gear that drops in the easiest partisans and off named. The only real unknown is the new evolving spell/disc that does not currently evolve.

There is no reason to complain here. There are a few missions that really should be done with real groups. Having a few things that are slightly challenging (and not box friendly) should not be considered a bad thing. It provides something for people that don't want to sleep through all the content. This handful of content does not prevent anyone from accessing zones, getting fully geared, getting spells or topping off AA. Only thing it might do is frustrate the checkbox obsessed ocd boxers.

Not sure if you were implying I was, but I wasn't. Just making a general comment about the way I'd like to see things tuned.

I can say that last night a group geared guildmate boxed one of the named in question in this thread. And really, bypass everything with campfires? Lol.

Well technically you do get the flying lion mount with a pretty nice buff and the best trophy in game for completing all merc/parti/hero missions, but I fully agree that something has to be earned and worth doing. Oh and the zone debuffs poof .

P.S. Can you program the lion mount to walk/fly modes similar to the butterfly mount?

Meh. I get tired of all the raiderhate (hateraid?) I see around here.

While I would wholeheartedly agree that group content should not be exclusively done with raid-geared players, I have no idea if that is actually what happened? Does anyone, or is that an umption? I thought this last beta was specifically open to everyone who pre-ordered?

To those who think otherwise, let me help clear up a few misconceptions about raiders:

1. Raid gear does not make the player. If a player sucks, putting on raid gear does not suddenly make them an EQ god. They are just a sucky player with better gear, which means they may live a little longer but die anyway.

2. As someone already mentioned, most raiders only spend a very small amount of their time raiding. Just speaking for myself, I love my raid gear and I am thankful to my guild for providing it. But I think what makes me a decent tank is the thousands of hours I have spent outside of raids learning my class and camping the stuff that really helps a tank be a tank: Augments (not just type 7/8, but special type 3's and etc), trophies, clickies, and ect. In fact, if you said I had to choose between my raid gear and all the other stuff I just mentioned, it would be hands down no contest, I would drop the raid gear in a heartbeat!

3. Ratbo, you said that some of these encounters require "raid know how", as if a regular grouper can't figure out a strategy? Does putting on raid gear make one smarter? I don't think so. In fact, I have guildmates who are far better than I at figuring out a strategy. I could never be a raid leader.

4. Most of us raiders were not born into EQ into a raid guild. We were groupers for a long time before we raided. So, we may remember a thing or three about being a regular grouper.

So, those of you who essentially say our helpful opinions are negated by the fact that we raid, well, I just think that is silly.

Get out of my head! This ^^ and basically everything you said.

Then why is there an obsession with magelo stats

I don't know. Ebonylight has been bugging me to update my magelo for like two years.

Competition for competitions sake? Sometimes it's fun I don't think it's ever taken that seriously though.

Who has an obsession? You'll have to be more clear.

I thought you raided in CotF t1 raid gear for the as-close-to-grouper-gear-as-possible-challenge-and-thrill, because that raid gear is OP man!

Not directed at you at all. Just an over all comment on the thread.

Because some people think it matters and makes them feel special. Anyone that equates magelo stats = skill is foolish. I'm #1 on Magelo for HP and #3 for hAGI. Does it make me a special snowflake? No. However, I'm #33 for mana. So am I good because I have high HP or bad because I have low mana? Yeah... meaningless metrics. Magelo is stupid aside from letting me have Grumpy Cat signatures.

I think people obsessed with magelo stats just need to validate themselves... which is fine I suppose provided no one else with intelligence puts any stock into it.

1. Truth. The number of incompetent raiders is astounding. I wouldn't want to group with half of the people I've encountered even decked out in raid gear.

2. Yep... every expansion raiders spend less and less time raiding (or it's been the trend as of late). My guild raids about 9 hours a week. That's peanuts. For me personally, I probably play close to 40 a week (or more or less... it will depress me if I actually calculate it I'm sure). So... yeah... doing group stuff, quests, solo, boxing, tradeskills, etc. is where I spend the majority of my time.

3. Agree - anyone can figure out a strat and most are even posted online publicly within weeks of an expansion release. Does vent help? Sure. Are raiders more inclined to have access to it? Likely. However, most guilds I know -raid or not- have vent/teamspeak regardless. Also it should be noted that most group missions are done before the raids; So, there is no "raid knowledge" available.

4. May is crazy... I was born with a golden medal on my chest and put on a pedestal into the bestest raid guild ever! (j/k)

This whole h8raid thing *almost* makes me want to go grab a suit of group gear and play for a week and report back. However, I then realized #1 I don't care enough and #2 the whole argument is ridiculous in the first place so it doesn't matter.

Oh I was mostly just making a commentary on how he wants to three box this stuff and his 3box + 3 mercs does such poor dps that 1 good player playing any dps class could out dps his group.

Hahaha, but so ouchy

This all reminds me of the RSS discussion many years ago. RSS was difficult, but as it turned out those complaining were roughly 25% undergeared and not necessarily using good tactics. Well geared and well played non-raiders in a well constructed group using sensible tactics could get their augs there. A few months later enough achieved success that it became apparent that non-raiders could kill named there and threads claiming they could not stopped

Perhaps a few events are overtuned. IF that's the case in your opinion provide feedback. But be prepared for disagreement if you are not using a 6 person well geared and well played group that's appropriately constructed and using sensible tactics.