Seems I and other tanks have been using the pet class DPS/Tank duality as a precedent to improve tanks. You know, the subject of the thread. Why so defensive?
You never answered my question on if you would like to be bidding and or rolling against a pet on loot. Pretty key question to have answered imho.
I'm not sure I see what the point is, but let me clarify: I don't care about loot all that much. I've replaced every slot this year and I'll do the same in the next year, so I don't "lose sleep" over any particular piece of gear.
The point is, you bring up the gearing solution but can not give a definitive answer on if you would like to share a loot table with pets. I am pretty certain 100% of people (not even tanks) would be upset if a NPC won an item over them. So, now pets are to get gear/augs but wait in line for players to win them first? IDK about you bit it does seem largely unfair. The losing sleep part was not about a piece of gear it was about the fact that your upset (ie: loss of sleep when your angry blah blah blah), because you have to do so much more 'work' then a pet does to fill the same niche.
I won't presume to tell your class how the mechanics and itemization should work, just that there should be a compromise between one-item tanks with high DPS and 44-item tanks with low dps
As a solo'er I really don't care what happens to grouping warriors but I ask...Why does everything need to be so homogenous? Why even have a tank vs dps archtype? Why can a monk or ranger CC? They aren't support like bard or enchanter? Why can't rogues CC better then? Why should there be any differences?...Just call the skills different things for "flavor" but instead of having haphazard ability overlap (creating too much envy) instead have no overlap because everyone is a clone? Chess is a really balanced game, is it not?
I was going to edit my post but my phone is wigging out and won't let me. I think one of the main problems of the discussion is trying to compare that which can be quantified on paper (hp totals, dps, dmg reduction) vs trade offs that cannot be quantified with some number, such as limited AI, difficulty taunting multiple mobs, no melees allowed in range....what is the numerical value you'd like to assign to these drawbacks so we can add that to the numerical comparisons? Find a number everyone can agree on for the abstract "trade-offs" to make comparisons more fair
I've tested it, and it doesn't work the way you said. I don't think you understand which HAs we're talking about in this thread, because not all HAs are equally difficult, and not all mobs within those HAs are equally difficult. Simply said, a group tank who knows how to play ought to have no issues with <104 mobs. A paladin in bazaar gear is capable of tanking them with stuns. Tanking 3 ~10k hitting mobs isn't a big problem when they're blue cons. Tanking 3 yellow cons immune to stun, and which flurries, that's a different story.
I'm going to need defensive and all the other warrior discs then. Oh, and the ability to taunt, snap aggro, AoE aggro, etc., and while you're at it, the ability to hide my mage in my pet so that I don't take double the damage from AoEs, rampages, etc. Course, I ought to still be able to use all my abilities while hiding in my pet, because that's only fair. For that matter, why don't we just make me a warrior with the DPS of a wizard, the healing ability of a cleric, and the utility of every other class combined? Deal.
Tanks are fine; the content was beta tested with group geared tanks; none of them reported issues. Ergo, you're trying to get mages nerfed.
I was on 20+ old time Vex Thal raids and two clears on my own, never even saw the 'Gloves of Dark Summoning' drop, much less win them. 15+ Kael raids, seen 1 pet ear drop; if not for currency, I'd still be waiting. The team I raid with isn't even trying events that could unlock a better pet focus, but every event drops armor and weapons. Having that 'one item upgrade' can really, really suck sometimes. Ever since VT days I've wished 'Pet Power' was spread out on gear like other stats, and added up to determine pet focus level, like Spell Damage or Attack rating is now. That would be an equalizing change I would welcome; particularly if it allowed a hard working player to accumulate even better pets than we have now, if the devs recognize the increased work to get +pet power gear/augs for all slots.
but right now, with currency, getting that one piece of EZ-mode Kaenneth. has been since VoA... and that's an issue every class face ; tanks and their shield, wizard and their arm-glove focus, melee and their weapon ( not all weapon suit all melee... rogue need pokers, mnk-bst need their class specific stuff who dosen't drop that often.. etc etc) priests need their neck Healing focus... Mage pets are not OP ( or pets in general, cause my lvl 98 BST pet with shard's landing focus earring tank neriak names just fine...) mages pet with T1 group focus + ~1k AA Worth of defensive stuff are just equal to nearly max AA'd tank in best-in-slot group gear, all of them filled up with 35+ AC augs... yes, one set of dailies, a lesson burn in a good group, a quick trip to the bazaar to buy an earring and the mage earth pet is ready to tackle CoTF names while a regular tanks have hundreds and hundreds of hours of farming and camping awaiting him before he can tackle the same stuff however, the pet AI have severe limitation. while the tank do not ; adds, movement, clickies... the pet cannot do much more than face tanking a single mob, no AE threat whatsoever.
IMHO Pets dont need to be nerfed, but tanks should be buffed. I have an group of SK/SHM/Mag, all at 92. The SK sits at 7500 AC, 83K Life and 5500 AA. If i do the valley daily, 1 Trashmob (lv 92/93) is fine. At 2 i have to be carefull. 3 would be an wipe with shm/cleric merc healing. The fully buffed Lv 91 Airpet (Lv 93 summoned) has less problems tanking 2 Mobs - i dont have the Earthpet yet. Thats not even current mobs. An tank, even more with EVERY defensive AA maxed for his level, should be able to tank current trashmobs, 2-3 levels above him. Singles atleast. He is not currently. I just dont know how Sony can fix this, without overpowering Raidtanks. But if you want, as an newcomer in everquest, to level an tank to lv 100 to play atleast successfull the current groupgame you have to be an masochist. My feeling currently is, that as an grouper you need to stay 2 expansions behind to play the game. Thats the reason i only buy every second expansion. Saves me money, and i cant enjoy the current expansion anyway.
Perhaps if you weren't level 92 you'd enjoy the current content more. Current group content is tested using group geared groups. For years I've been reading how a group geared group can't do X starting with Iirc GoD. GoD was overtuned. Subsequent content was not. Riftseeker's Sanctum was VERY doable in group gear, but that didn't stop posts stating it wasn't. Let's be clear - current group content is the endgame for group geared players. Of course its going to be challenging for them. Current group content is not the endgame for raiders. Other than augs (which I'd prefer to loot while raiding in the first place) we don't get many rewards that aren't highly contrived. RvR....raiders don't find group content particularly rewarding ergo...for us it's not particularly risky. Let's be really clear. At levels 90-92 others in group gear got through that content you find extremely difficult. (In fact, I knew of a 2 player group geared box team that usually finished expansions in less than 3 months). They didn't have drops like candy Pestilent BP's with 277AC and 2148 HP's nor drops like candy matching level 92 accessories. I'm extremely sympathetic toward group-geared tanks. But the truth is it can be done, people have done it left and right, it's just a not easy journey compared to that faced by many other classes. (BTW, I play a lower level alt and I'm frankly shocked at how easy the game has become.)
<- Battleaxe and Frodlin suggested putting EoA on the 1.5 epics so non-hardcore raiders would get that benefit. Battleaxe suggested knights get EoA and during Solteris suggested they should get it on an earring. They hadn't gotten an upgraded item with it since Redfang. Battleaxe suggested that a group obtained replacement for the Symbol of the Planesmaster clickie be provided since SoTP has a knockback and both SoTP and Aten's gloves weren't readily acessible to non-raiders. Battleaxe suggested that healing and buff potion vendors should appear in PoK so that classes not having a lot of self-buffs wouldn't have to go begging for them and return to the lobby when they timed out. (Raiders in raids don't have that issue). Battleaxe suggested that given Tank Parity starting in DoN that Warriors should get greater tanking related utility used when grouping but did not affect the raid game - the ability to better stop low HP running mobs being one example. Battleaxe suggested henchmen who would help poor soloing classes but disappear if you joined a group. Battleaxe suggested improving the survival benefits of shields in this very thread primarily to help non-raiders narrow the tanking gap with raiders (raiders get along just fine in group content - even more not needed survivability won't change things) Battleaxe suggests that the DPS gap between usually shield using group geared players and raiders should not be widened by enabling raiders to tank almost all group content in DW or 2H. Battleaxe suggests that the best tanking outcome should be achieved using S&B, best melee DPSing outcome using 2H or DW, and best range DPS uusing a bow or throuwing ricks. Using the appropriate gear for a given role should not just apply to non-raiders but should apply to all tanks. Thanks for providing me with an opportunity to detail some of my support for non-raiding tanks Explicit. Don't you have some mobs to kill while tanking in your melee DPS class setup with none of the disadvantages melee DPSers encounter?
It's not like i was allways 92, and 100 allways current content. And do you really think, if i now would level to 100 (take's me a week, maybe 2), i would be able to enjoy the current content ? I have 83k hp and 7500 ac (Buffed), i should be able to tank Valley mobs np. I am not. As i said, i can tank one trash, lv 92/93 in the Valley. At 2 i get problems. 3 is an wipe. Simply because they Quad for 10K/hit way to often, while they should not on an tank How good should an tank be geared, how many AA should he have before he's allowed to tank ? I am almost sure, i have better gear and more AA's than the "normal level to 100 and then enjoy the game newbie", and i struggle with the mobs there. Dont get me wrong, i knew how it would be. Thats the reason i take my time while leveling, take care of my AA's. I will hit 100 with almost my AA's maxed, not before. But i still think, that tanks should have it easier. With an DD its simply no problem to get to 100 with 1000 aa's and then start to grind, as an tank you cant.
Now you're playing ignorant, that's ok. There's enough evidence across several other threads to the contrary.
It's common knowledge that the tank classes are extremely gear and AA dependent. I've advocated using the achievements system to provide level, AA, and gear grants to people completing a New Player, Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master task list. I've no problem with acceleration provided that you earn advancement rather than just log on and discover your fairy godmother has made you level 85, given you 5000 AA's, and a full set of gear. Previously I suggested that SOE creates a Training Grounds server where new player and those substantially behind can catchup with others at their stage in the game to play with. SOE has done a whole lot in this area. (Some remotely similar to my suggestions and some not.) But once you are caught up there's an expectation that you can succeed in beating content tested using group geared players. EQ is a gigantic sorting machine that rewards those who succeed and culls out those that don't. I can't analyze why you aren't succeeding. I can only tell you others are. Some group geared players in as little as three months in content you've been struggling in for a year.
