How to fix group tanks...

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Trasa, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. Ravengloome Augur


    Me and a Buddy took a break after completing Underfoot, it took us 4 months to duo + a box or two from 85 to 95 (this was during VOA) get T4 HOT access along the way, camp augs from HOT, and Fully gear up in VOA T4 gear. And that was without ever seeing Either HOT or VOA... Playing 3 or 4 hours a night. There is literally nothing in this game that sheer perseverance and know how cannot get you through.

    Tanking like anything else that is skill based in life is not that hard once you learn the mechanics of how it works, how to handle new content with subpar gear, what the quickest/most efficient way to gear yourself (The gear plan is the same every expansion sinc SOF!), you will advance.

    If you cannot advance its a failure on YOUR part, not the games, not the devs, not the lack of groups, not the rampant boxing, etc, etc. Its because YOU chose to fail while others did not. If you can't live with that, learn what you do not know, master what skills you haven't mastered yet, and you will not fail again.
  2. Dre. Augur

    A lot of us have switched to boxing. I suggest rolling a free-account Bard. Grind it up to, 55 grab an ornate BP, overhaste aura and group up with your Warrior. Find an easy, older zone like plane of fire or splitpaw (your warrior can pop some DPS, Bard's 55 healer merc should be fine for these) and get your Warrior a good 1500aa's while your bard catches up in levels.

    And lose the shield for a few levels, homes. At 80 both your agro and DPS are suffering massively without a second weapon.
  3. Necromonious Augur

    I'm talking from the perspective of a new player trying a class. The poster I was quoting was saying casters have an easier time soloing, and I agree, but to be efficient at this requires tactics a true noob (if there are any?) isn't going to grasp. Noobs don't know which mobs summon until they've taken a dirt nap to them, that's 1 death for every "oops that's a summoner". That's a decent amount of deaths right there. Not to mention the ideas of quad killing was historically the most effecient way to solo a dru or wiz and is in my opinion not a tactic used by true noobs to the game.

    Same with reverse charming. Eq is not user-friendly and has a steep learning curve. Just because the game is old doesn't mean any newly created wiz or dru inherently understands which mobs to avoid and every chanter knows that at level 80ish I should start learning how to build a "chainsaw mob" to kill my pets. I consider those pretty advanced tatics for a f2p noob to the class...
  4. Lazy automation Elder

    They really need to balance the amount of work it takes tank to be viable for their role, compared to other classes to fufil their roles. I can play a lowish 1 k aa alt and be very viable as a dps class , healer or cc, but nearly worthless as a tank. They need to find a way to make tanking more skill based then gear/aa based.

    Group tanks have it worse by far, they get even more discouraged when they see pets tank so much better. Ugh makes me sad to say but maybe make the group game easier to tank. the group game thrived when easy group content like ldon or don were current. some people like challenge, most just want easy progress. A good example is the popularity of hz dailies, theyre easy and quick and after youre done you felt like it was productive.

    My main is a sk played since kunark which has raided on and off over the years, currently fully raid geared, 35 ac aug hdex.agi min augs and with 10 k aa. Just stating my credentials before somebody calls me out for beinga tank who doesn't work:p. I also have an alt in every class except war pally druid and beastlord who i play casually in groups. They all have at least 500 aas and if im paying attention can fufill their roles pretty well, its when my attention wanders that i blame it on low aa;)
  5. Melanippe Augur

    If a truly new player has the sense to use the NewPlayers channel and the Class channel and, later, the General channel to ask questions about their class and/or where to find information about their class AND has the sense to make the effort to use the information available, a truly new player will discover a LOT about their class. It boils down to whether said truly new player is willing to make the effort. One would think that someone truly new to any game would, at least, make the effort to locate the website, forums and other locations pertaining to said game that contain information. One would think.

    One learns through trial and error, or hopefully does. EverQuest does have a learning curve ! As to it being steep that, naturally, depends on who is doing the learning. People who expect to be spoon-fed and led by the hand need to re-think their expectations.
  6. Ravengloome Augur

    Your post or more to the point what I quoted x 100000
    Melanippe likes this.
  7. Melanippe Augur

    Easy and progress shouldn't be juxtaposed. ;)

    For those people who want "easy" there is plenty of "easy" content where they can actually level and earn aa's.

    For those people who want "progress" it takes a bit more effort. :)
  8. Necromonious Augur

    I used to think this. Until I started chatting and grouping with some people doing my epic. Ones who hadnt played in a while would be stuck on answering some basic stuff such as zones, spells, and the like. I'd offer to check sties like eq zam and they'd be like "wha?"
  9. Tharrg Augur

    I Made it to 80 through sheer force of will... I know that AA's are king.. I was not working too hard untill recently because I was Silver account... for a while.. SO I had a cap at 1000 and so I was working slowly. Now that I am level 80 I have cleared over 150 AA"s in about a week. I do not know anyone really in game. I have no friends to play so I was not carried.

    THe only reason I am posting on this board is the lack of understanding that people seem to have.
    The first thing everyone did was scream that all the guy wanted was nerfs.. then the conversation that they wanted free gear..... When all the poster tried to do was paint the picture to those who can do something that the game is oriented in such a way that the only successful way to be a tank is to max out everything.. but too do so is harder because there are no groups today at certain levels. THe player base is long passed those levels and unless they are working on an alt you typically do not find groups.

    And no I may not know how to least not where is the best place yadayada... because this is all new to me at this level. I have never played a character this high because im an altalholic with no friends and small amounts of time. Its been difficult finding that sweet spot to get AA's. I have had to do everything without a journeyman mercs from level 65 onward. Only in the past 2 weeks have I got back my Journeyman merc.. but I dont have but J1. I have boxed.. and I am boxing.. but since this is my highest level character I dont have many options.

    I dont see why my level has anything to do with the conversation in a negative way. In fact It makes me more able to sympathise and to bring in the perspective from this side. Most of you or in fact all of you have level 100 characters.. You see tons of people at your levels and grouping.. ... I see no one. My server is dead for this level. I dont even see people doing Group content. I will level my AA's untill they are maxed.. then Ill move on to 85... stop and do the same.. I will then move to 90... and then I may be able to start to find groups... especially if the Heroic Character thing happens.

    I really hate that you all assume that somehow im a bad tank. You have never seen me tank,.. you just look at my level and AA's and immediatly call me a bad tank. Well im not a bad tank. I have worked to get all my Defensive AA's max... first.. and for the person stating loose shield.. thats just my tanking stance.. I have DPS stance I just like the way it shows my AC if I put it at max that I have. Now get off the high horse and lets try to have a conversation... why not pretend to consider that maybe not everyone has the same friends/guild/twinking/knowledge as you and now try to pretend you are going to have to do this alone... better yet.. go make a Warrior Tank on a low population server where you know no one.. and level them up alone.. and do so with only apprenice mercs.. just to see how others may have it. Then come back here and tell me if it was a cake walk.
  10. Ravengloome Augur

    Any tank should should stop at 70 and grind out an F ton of AA in Chardok B or The Hole

    Then do the same at 75 or 80 in PoFire

    You would have been better off leveling the AA as you leveled... Your basically hamstringing your XPing rate by not having any AA at 80 to do content.

    We didn't just roll our toons from login to 100 dude, We did what your doing. So when we say its not hard... its from the vantage point of experience. Sorry but I don't sympathize with people because they can't get off their butts and do content I breezed through when it was current (Probably boxing my necro along with me)

    Outside of a handful of named in UF and VOA I don't think any group content Required more then a tank + cleric merc + Dps friend/box + dps merc. And really whats your point about the Apprentice mercs? if you think anyone would use an Apprentice merc when they can get a Journeyman? Thats just plain and simple lazy/dumb.

    And I did what you said, I made a paladin and a friend made a monk in July, Both our toons are now 100 and 10k+ aa without twinking... We used nothing but J1 mercs till 90 when we finally got off our butts and duo'd J5. So how is that hard? Seriously explain it to me. O well its gotta be a warrior? I bet I could get to the same level as you and gear/AA moloing in a bout a week or two of playing the toon.
    Lazy automation likes this.
  11. alidan Lorekeeper

    you dont understand the very simple concept... you are useless at that level with that little aa, sure, f2p is technically to the max level (or 95, i forget which) but you are useless passed level 75 without more than 1000 aa, hell melee is useless past 70 without more aa in many cases.

    casters get it a bit easier, having a lower aa amount required to be effective, but you at level 80 with 410 aa are useless, this isnt an assumption that you are bad, this is an objective fact about your character right now and how you leveled it.
  12. Tharrg Augur

    Hey I would have loved to Grind out my AA at level 70 in the Hole.. or Chardok... or use POF... but at least on my server... Level 100's Plevel the crap out of their alts there. ANd so THey are basically not availiable, I think im doing pretty good at my level.. I can fight Light Blues and BLues.. and tank up to 3 at a time. I use a 72 Beastlord as my Box partner.. I am not useless.. or bad at playing my character. I just do not have the resources or knowledge you have. You ever stop to think about that. Im doing all this on my own on a server thats not well known for its friendlyness. I would join groups if they existed... and my low AA count may turn them off. But I think I represent exactly the issue that the person who started this board is talking about. I have to struggle to even be considered a valid tank on the boards let alone in the game because in order to be a "Tank" in your eyes.. I have to be max everything. Well guess what.. not everyone can just snap their fingers and be max. I get about 1-2 hours of play a day. I work hard.. and can get about 30-40 AA's I will have max. Its just taking a long time. I just dont think a tank should have to be max everything to be viable....
  13. Dre. Augur

    Farm plat and augs while - and this is the absolutely key bit - maxxing AA's every level.

    Level up only when out of worthwhile AA's to buy. Catch up on AA every level. Re-gear every time you reach a new tier of attuneables. Rinse repeat until max level/no more attuneable gear to buy and then move on to an active grouping guild that needs tanks.

    Difference between you and me at level 80.... take your gear and weapons, subtract 35% from all stats and imagine the best buyable gear was worse. I had 4-5x your AA's and the AA bonus hadn't been invented yet.
    Right there with you brother.
  14. Tharrg Augur

    But did you do it alone? Im not arguing that I dont have the AA's to tank. I have said probally 10 times in this topic alone that I am currently trying to max my AA's before I move on. The point Im trying to make is that im having to do it alone because there is no group game at this level and also the question is why should I have too get max everything when other classes do not? That is the whole topic, lets not argue that they have too.. that is the point... they have too get everything to be successful.. I think this has been beat into the ground enough. The question is still why? Why should they be required to have everything and max it.. to be viable? This is a big turn off for anyone new..... SO the question is HOW do we change this. As it does need to be changed..... I dont care if you did it without bonus or without stats.. etc... times change... I started when there were Hell levels..... new players are not having to deal with that..... times change... its how the game progresses.. so lets ignore your stuggle and be reminded that as things change people will get access to things you didnt. SO lets get back to what Could be done to make warriors better.... and ignore the SHOULD part.... lets argue what COULD be done.
  15. alidan Lorekeeper

    you stop and farm out aa at the level you get them lowest if you arent pling. with pof, i honestly didnt care that someone else was at the camp, because on my server, they dont care that other players are there either, and i held down half of c2 from people going there to headshot.

    you have options beyond the obvious ones that everyone uses.

    and your low aa count is a turn off because you would be honestly useless outside of a character to eat a deathtouch.

    i wont argue that there are mobs you can kill, but you made it harder for yourself than you ever had to by not focusing on aa. that is the crappy part of being low level and i argue you should be auto granted X amount of aa a level till you are 80-85 just because those level ranges are dead, but until something like that happens, you NEED aa, taking a blue mob is something a melee dps could tank through, and many could do several at once like you. once you get the aa, you will understand why you are wrong.
  16. Ravengloome Augur

    How hard is it to plan out when your going to grind your aa's and where you have available upgrades that you can duo/molo?

    Also quit making excuses you outleveled your usefulness (AA) so you are literally making it far more difficult then it needs to be on yourself. It has nothing to do with how "hard" it was for us, It wasn't hard then and it only got easier. The problem is you have to put some effort and forethought into the decisions you make. Which apparently SOME people are incapable of doing. Then when they bang their face into a wall repeatedly they act like its the "systems" fault.

    Even if they autogranted AA's and Autoleveled people to 90 or 95 or even 100, theres still gunna be some that come on here and claim its still to hard. At some point there has to be a line in the sand, You don't like it? Don't roll a tank.
  17. Tharrg Augur

    Ok, Lets try this with small slow words. YES you have to have the AA to be viable. I DO NOT have enough. My server has alot of jerks. I tried to go to areas with others but I would be trained or shouted at to leave that the zone was theirs. That is the typical attitude I deal with on Xegony. I am trying to make no excuse for my low AA count. I chose to hit 80 first, alot of boards implied it would be better because of low population to hit 80 before getting AA. I got about 300 between 70 and 75 and then went full Exp to get to 80. I understand that it takes AA's and alot of them to be viable. I have the best gear I can get. The issue again, again and im going to make this visible is WHY should a Warrior have to get Max AA's THE BEST Gear for their Level to be Viable and have even a chance to survive Group content? We all cann agree that they have too, that is not the question. The question is WHY? and should that be changed to make them more Viable with lower AA and make the gear requirement for group content lower Or do we need to look at how warriors mitigate damage or take hits and adjust it to be better. That is the question being asked. I bring a unique look to this because Im dealing with that now. (well except for the group part because there are no levle 75-85 groups that exist)
  18. Sinestra Augur

    Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. If you don't like how the system works you are welcome to complain about it. Whether someone else feels you should just not play a tank and stop complaining is entirely irrelevant.

    Feel free to make all the complaints you like.
  19. Ravengloome Augur

    They don't have to be MAX aa to be viable... They need to have intelligent AA purchases though.

    As Far as lower the requirement on gear? Not all does that need to be even entertained. They already gave access to gear that completely the content you can use it in.

    If they make it any easier you'll just log in and be max AA/max Gear/Max level.

    If you can't handle the mountain of AA, or the gearing process Perhaps you should consider a different class?
    Or a different game.
  20. Tharrg Augur

    Im just trying to help the conversation by pointing out the flaws I see. However everyone seems to just repeat the same line that "well everyone knows you need max blah blah blah"... its infuriating because that is the argument that people are trying to make.. we have to have max... and so what can be done to correct that, as it seems to be a problem that needs to be fixed. They can have their opinion. They just dont need to repeat the same line over and over because, well we know you have to have max. We want to know how things can be adjusted so that you dont. I would think that was simple to understand.

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