Gates of Discord AoC Testing Thread

So an instanced server suddenly doesn't have instances anymore?

lololol

If you go through with this, it would be the equivalent of instancing the elemental planes, but not including any of the Elemental Gods in the instances.

"We just don't consider the Gods to be "raid" content so we chose not to have them spawn in the instances. We can argue if we made the right decisions, though it will be hard to convince me to another viewpoint"

Let me set some expectations for you and your team.

If you're not including the RAID bosses that are REQUIRED for progression which require RAIDS of people to defeat in these instances...you're going to look like armatures.

If you need help because you don't know whats what in a certain expansion, use your players as a resources once in a while. Is that really TOO much for your egos to handle as developers?

In any other facet of your industry as developers you would be answering to an army of angry customers demanding you to make a better product. However, because you provide "Entertainment-as-a-Service" EaaS(TM), and you're not coding for a Medical Practice, Government client, or adhere to any kind of quality standards it really does seem some days that you are the absolute worst professionals in your corner of the development world. Your players who use your product everyday have no leverage to hold your feet to the fire...and so you are lazy...roll your eyes at posts like this one...and the integrity of your product suffers.

There is no one that will be raiding on this server, clearing GoD content, that agrees with your idea of what is a raid target and what isn't in GoD. You're missing key progression targets, and you have listed targets that are LITERALLY ONLY there for the BiC quest.

If you are going to BS us...don't contradict yourself in the same breath....

BiC is a chase item, so not instancing those events can be accepted. Progression however? you really need too. Maybe there is scripting in some of those events you just wanted to avoid? I dunno. We need the progression targets, or the server will start to suffer.

I'm sure some people will want all of the BiC targets instanced, but as long as you instance everything required for GoD progression I'm sure you will make the large majority very happy. Anyone who desperately wants to complete the BiC quest can go back to GoD if they have to.

You missed the most important progression mobs. Nothing to do with BiC, the expansion will fail if no one can progress to Tacvi.

Keep in mind that anything you don't instance, will be killed by 2 guilds for the entire expansion. So think of that when you converse about the targets. You need to ask yourself, is it fine if only 2 guilds kill this target throughout GoD?

Aka, 19 guilds won't have access to non-instanced targets.

not instancing something that is only relevant to BiC is fine,

not instancing stuff required for progression, that is ALSO part of BiC is not cool.

This is how I converse though...

You'll have to excuse me...after you burned us on Lord Seru Prasertum's in Luclin I've lost some trust...

You have to realize how bad this looks. How do you possibly put up that list with the single most important mobs of the expansion not considered to be instanced?

Would you have ever released a list that said "we decided we're only going to instance pop raid targets for progression so for the elemental planes we'll be instancing all bosses except fennin, xegony, coirnav, and the rathe council, and also there will be an AoC for overlord banord paffa"

Do you realize how that would have made no sense and would have made it look like you had literally no idea what you were talking about, or that you were intentionally trying to block the server out of potime?

All of us want to converse and all of us want this fixed but it is very, VERY hard to believe that this was just some slight oversight. Its absolutely baffling

OK, so, what? You don't think Zun`Muram Tkaarish Zyk, Ixt Hsek Syat, High Priest Nkosi Bakari, Ixt Kial Ivesi, Ixt Quall Nalnn, and Cynosure Kvanjji are raid events? Take another look at the loot table.

Goats in Qvic are 1-grpable and respawn every 6 hours, totally fine to not put them in the DZ.

Is taskmistress in Riwwi an OOW event then?

The progression content and significant events should always be instanced. The rest you can make accessible in pickzones, such as the Praesertums were in Luclin.

As such, if I were to do it, based on your pickzone vision:

Barindu shouldn't even have an instance. Pickzone on the Pox is fine.
Yxxta: See above.
Ferubi: See above.

Natimbi: Cragbeast Queen should have an instance.
Qvic: Important progression benchmark, should be instanced (M`Shas, and Cynosure in addition to Iqthinxa)
Txevu: Missing the entire Champion, HP, and Zun cycles here. This is like saying Trakanon or Emperor in Ssraeszha is not instanced.

The vast majority of the BiC can be acquired through pickzones pretty easily.

Again, the emphasis here is anything significant and progression related. I lead Citizen through these during the Fippy/Vulak TLPs, these are pretty important to get sorted for the community, as they will be huge sources of conflict.

I lead OGC on Phinigel, and I want to be clear here, we have never been determined to "block" other guilds. We'll go hard on expansion launches to clear content as quickly as we can, but I'm not going to block content from people. This game is nearly 20 years old from inception, and we're here for the nostalgia and comradery. I'm happy to see so many guilds doing well with the ruleset on this server, it promotes a healthy long term environment, which is important.

see, i dont think they were intentionally trying to block the server from Tacvi or any conspiracy theories.,

i think they just literally dont know the older content of their game very well.

it doesnt help that the list he posted contradicted itself by leaving off mobs in the same zone that dropped the same loot quality of mobs they did instance.

but lets give em a chance. i can see them not instancing stuff that is only for BIC, thats fine. but absolutely everything related to progression should be AoCd if its not already instanced.

they are nearing the end point for even needing to do AoCs, the only thing past GoD that comes to mind taht needs instanced is Vule in DoDH, and i think maybe 1 or two things in PoR. after that i am fairly sure everything is already fully instanced.

all the raid progression in OoW and DoN is already instanced.

Here is the list we gathered for you in the other thread. Feel free to decide not to instance whichever ones you want, but if you go through this list and either instance or decide purposefully not to instance them, you should cover everything important.

The bolded ones are for progression and are strongly recommended not to skip instancing, though.

Also, to the public at large. Can you try to be nice to the devs? Jumping all over them just encourages them not to participate which is a bad thing for all of us.

Hi Absor, thanks for responding and looking into some of the issues. I still appreciate all the work you do for Phinigel, even though at times it must be daunting.

I fully understand your assumption not to instance things just because they're Breakdown in Communication related. I do, however, have three issues, in order of severity:

1. Based on this quote:

The following encounters are 'loot dropping' that are not included on your list, even if they happen to have BiC pieces, and are not triggered in any way other than being 'there':

Natimbi
* Cragbeast Queen (drops quest items that are combined with drops in Uqua, Tipt, Vxed, and other zones to make raid quality items)

Kod'Taz
* Summoner Ring (drops loot as well as pieces to finish Kod'Taz progression, although these pieces are not necessary to request raids)

Qvic
* Cynosure Kvanjii (happens to drop BiC items)
* Ptav M'sha (see point 3 below)
* Dvoin M'sha (see point 3 below)
* Mnat M'sha (see point 3 below)

Txevu
* Mastruq Champion/The Runt/Ixt Hsek Hyat event (spawns when you walk up to the Mastruq Champion in the fountain room near zone in)
* High Priest Nkosi Bakari (spawns when you defeat the Vrek Invokers in the caves, if the restless wraith is up)
* Zun'Muram Tkarish Zyk (happens to drop BiC Items, also drops the necessary item to request the Tacvi raid)
* Ixt Quall Nalnn
* Ixt Kial Ivesi

2. Txevu - The Mastruq Champion/Runt event, the High Priest Nkosi Bakari event, and the Zun'Muram Tkarish Zyk event.

These events are part of raid progression through Gates of Discord. In order to reach High Priest Nkosi Bakari's tunnels, you must have the Polished Stone Key that drops from the Mastruq Champion event, specifically the final boss of the event, Ixt Hsek Syat. In order to continue through the zone to the final fight with Zun'Muram Tkarish Zyk, you must complete the High Priest Nkosi Bakari event and obtain the Jade Inlaid Key. Finally, in order to request the final instance of the expansion, Tacvi, you must have the Zun'Muram Signet of Command that drops from Zun'Muram Tkarish Zyk. In all three cases, these raid fights have equal loot drops to the list of Txevu mobs you posted.

I can't stress enough that not adding these three raid fights in the Txevu instance has the potential to create a massive bottleneck for the 10+ guilds that will be progressing through Gates of Discord. Of all the mobs that should be added, I believe these three have the most "right" based on the guidelines you posted above and previous statements about uncorking bottle necks.

3. Qvic - Ptav M'sha, Mnat M'sha, and Dvoin M'sha.

These three raid fights in the Qvic instance are the primary source of Gates of Discord visible armor, minus the Legs and Chest pieces. Even if they spawn in picks, once again you are going to see very, very heavy competition for these mobs and all the things that come along with that assumption (trains, KSing, blurring, etc).

By adding these three fights to the raid instance, you allow guilds the flexibility of gearing up their members via alternative methods to straight out dps racing and having to sit in Qvic for days on end to try and get what they need.

Thanks again for working with us Absor.

i would agree, but i mean, they were inconsistent even with their own logic. they stated they decided by loot what was a raid, then left off raid mobs that literally drop the same quality of loot as the ones they did instance, *in the same zone* in a few cases.

it would be the same thing as if they had decided to randomly leave Hoshkar and Phara dar out of VP during kunark. or if they had decided to instance Talendor but not Sev.

i dont think its being unreasonable to ask for better than that, especially when on their own forums there is thread discussing this that has been around for months. they could have engaged us, and told us they have no intention of AoCing things that are soley for BIC (which i am perfectly fine with) then asked for feedback on what is essential for progression.

its obvious they dont know the old game as well as their players, which is absolutely fine. i dont remember what i did at work 14 years ago either. but dont insult us with faulty logic when the playerbase routinely goes out of their way to offer assistance with things like this.

PoR will need the following instanced:
* Devastation (bones necessary to get the Razorthorn raid instance)
* Sverag (bone necessary to get the Razorthorn raid instance)
* Relic (the pieces necessary to get Daosheen the Firstborn raid instance from Tsikut, Shar`Drahn, Ashenback, and Porthio)
* Theater of Blood (raid fights and final key item necessary to access Deathknell)

Everything else is already instanced.