It isn't 3 sec cast, unless you haven't bought Quick Buff. Every enchanter should have Quick Buff by this point. It was one of the AAs to get to satisfy the requirement on buying Archetype AAs in order to get to Dire Charm under the class tab ( I realize newer people may not know what I'm talking about ) and has been a requirement in most raiding guilds since Luclin. So, before last patch, I could protect myself from 260k in damage over 12 seconds. Now I can protect myself 700k over 12 seconds, which is too much. After the next patch, I will be able to protect myself from 167k over 12 seconds. Its a step backwards, we just got a small bump before getting nerfed. More than anything, its just taking away a tool. We used it to help us CC large numbers of adds with the extra stun. This class was always about controlling the environment, but we keep losing tools to that and they get replaced with adps. I don't play an enchanter to buff and sit on the side lines while others do all the work and I'm getting sick of raids in which our tools are reduced to gimmicks. All in all, feeling pretty disgusted with all of it about now.
I spend a lot of time in the group pool and consider myself lucky if I can find a tank at all. Fortunately, being an enchanter I can help any tank do a better job. I raid with a top guild and group with most of the members, and they certainly aren't worried about any competition from me. But then again, they did get their own version of our Phantasmal Pets, didn't they? But I can make a less well-geared tank work in a group situation using old school methods. Umbral Auspice is too slow for one enchanter to keep a single tank up in either a group or a raid, so maybe that's where the competition comes in, they get their runes, pets, and other clickies and we get... hmmm. Nerfed runes.
As a wizard I am once again disappointed by our developers. Why nerf the one spell that really makes playing a high level wizard interesting? Jokes on me I guess, your All Access discount got me too resub all three of my accounts for a year. Good one.
.[/quote] Seriously?? You haven't tried it. You expect? I can tell you from experience that you are wrong. I do it every week and not only I depend on those runes keeping me up and moving so does the healer that's in my caster/necro group. Casters (wizards, mages and necros) benefit the most from our aa lines (way more than us, btw), so it's unusual for an enchanter to be in any other raid group. Those runes do not just keep ME up, they contribute to keeping my whole group up. Major healing goes to the tanks, the REAL tanks. In WK's Doomhorde raid you can use a combination of aoe stun and aoe mez to significantly reduce the damage taken by the raid force. I was asked once, just once, to not run out there and stun/mez because the healing was stretched so thin. We wiped. Apparently keeping the stunnable and mezzable, totally, and the stunnable, and the mezzable incapacitated part of the time it reduces the damage to the raid (particularly that nasty dot). If you haven't done it, then you do not know. None of our roles are supposed to stand alone, everything impacts our groups and raid members. What I think has happened is someone saw enchanters "tanking" and figured that we're all overpowered now. Darn...those runes they've had for what, two expansions now are suddenly overpowered! They can stand up to that GROUPABLE mob in PoWar for a few minutes; never mind that the raid mobs cut through those runes in three or four hits on an average). I have top raid equipment. I am doing the current content. With the mobs that we face now those runes just evaporate. You don't get a 2nd chance at CC when those mobs are unmezzable, unstunnable, and all you can do is pretend you're a mage with no pet, a level 90 wizard and nuke, or keep buffing the tanks, casters, etc, that are being rez'd constantly around you. Imagine what ever you want, but it shouldn't be used as an apology for a reduction in an essential tool which oddly enough has suddenly become "over powered" after all this time in use. It should have been due a bump up given the mobs and raid bosses that. We're due some serious improvement, not one nerf following another as new content is released.
Thanks Jordis. Further proof that this Nerf effects all enchanters. Raiders and groupers. Level of gear doesn't matter in the end game. The way NPC's are hitting, your runes need to be at your fingertips at all times. A 12 second recast? That's a fatality for you, and your healer friend after you die. What blows my mind is they just increased the runes damage absorption last patch... Now your taking 6 steps in the wrong direction
Try a different strategy, back in the real old days I used to kite the raid mobs when my spell gem was greyed out, and then stop and cast again when they were refreshed again. It works even better if you train the tanks, who would not engage but try and get aggro or stun the mobs, giving the enchanter time to CC.
That's an...interesting WK1 strat. All I do on WK1 is mez the yellow con warders (since warders are the only ones that AE). The rest of the trash are picked up by tanks (with deflection in later waves) and focused down two or three at a time. The only time we really even sweat is when there are multiple red con (and thus unmezzable) warders. That's kind of a digression, though, since I don't claim that my way is the "best" way at all, and I'm glad to have fights where more than one solution is possible. I'm just saying if this goes through, there are ways to adjust so that being runed to the nines isn't a requirement.
I am always having my chanters use both stuns and mez in WK1, and I don't remember the last time we had an issue (other then the chanter getting agro from casting their unity runes). The changes are stupid, and makes me wonder what/if is the reasoning behind this, the claw line, and rest changes. I would *hope* that they plan on looking at the amount of hate generated by our runes when this change goes in as more and more it's becoming an insta-death if you need to cast it. It's not fair in game mechanics to change a spell line to cause it to kill you if you use it on a raid. The thing that annoys me most about this...is SoE doesn't have the damn time to make more then one zone for T2B or get ANY spells/aa's into the patch yet they have time to screw with the class mechanics which in turn WILL break other features. I'm glad my kickstarter money to CotF was spent on 5 months of sick days because wasn't done in that time.
The thread with Elidroth "taking the point position" about the change to Mental Contortion stands as the ultimate example of "How to get it right" - re Community Relations vs a change. That was then. What's happening with this patch - in light of the widespread dissatisfaction with CotF content provided - is to me just plain insane. This, regardless of what's "coming in the future". The damage is being done today, the damage control - needs to be done - today. Melee and tanks are furious with the nerf to "Rest" as well - you're not alone here. -Rat (uses a Chanter enough to totally understand the problems here)
Might as well remove syllable of refreshment from Claw line then... what's it gonna refresh now? Ethereal Weave?
This isn't about what strategies this hurts or what raid this changes. This change to runes hurts all Enchanters, Raid, Group and Solo. And it hurts everyone around us Letting this change or any of the other changes you have on beta go live is detrimental to the health of the game as a whole. We want content, not to be made weaker
I could not possibly agree with this more. The mental contortion change was disappointing, but the way it was done - straightforward, up-front, and as transparent as possible - was first class. It's a really strong contrast to what's being done now.
Dandin nailed it right here. In order to get the "strange and undesired" behavior of "Enchanter Tanking" - you need two components. A) The ability to hold aggro. B) Survivability Now, since B is needed in order for Chanters to get control of a crowd (ie do their jobs properly), would it not make more sense to nerf A and not B? I mean really? -Rat
That works relatively well for charming in some cases kiting in groups although it's not nearly so useful on current content. We have all sorts of "get away" strats for when things go wrong when we're by ourselves including a few (aggro magnet pets that do no damage to the mobs). Btw, when I tanked Judicator I used all those pets to split the aggro until the rest of the group could rez back or run back in. Runes are an added benefit in those situations they are essential in current content, group and raid where you are part of a team. In raids enchanters do not pull. They do not kite. Sk's are the go-to guys and gals for kiting, and pulling for the most part, these days. They can take more hits because of the higher AC, and runes are not AC. Paladins use their single stun to get the aggro off a mob to tank. There's that AC, faster melee ability, rune proc items, self-healing, riposte-mob killing class dealing with ONE mob while the silk caster is running around AOE stunning, mezzing, debuffing and depending on runes. Forget that stupid animation. one weapon dual weilding pet which any aoe will take out despite all current pet improvement aa. Typically, my cast is stun mez, rune, stun, mez, rune, buff the tank that just went down, stun, mez, stun mez. There is no time to "run around" kiting a mob until they ungrey, and especially not if that recast time is increased. We are not the only class with rune/spell guards. Take a look at the coverage and cast time on the spells and aa of some of the other classes before thinking that we can take a loss because of "overpowered runes). I started taking a closer look after doing beta buffed casters while waiting for my main to be copied over. I am not suggesting they be nerfed too. But this latest nerf the enchanters is just one more slap in the face for those of us that have been playing the class for years, didn't walk away and become another class and then turn around and tell people what enchanters should be doing or have, or that they perceive as being "over powered" because those people are usually all about the DPS and not the team-play, group to make the group or raid to make the raid better. Sure, they should change if they are going to have more fun in another class, but their say so on changes should be disregarded because it doesn't effect them. Usually they're all about DPS and parses. It takes a lot more to stand back and know that you did a good job without showing up on some heal or dps parse. Maybe it's that willingness to play the game as a team player and to adapt constantly to challenges, even those that have nearly relegated the class into oblivion, that leaves us at a particular disadvantage. Frankly, I've paid a lot of money to play this class over the years, particularly in the past few with station cash, houses to furnish, illusions that have to be BOUGHT and can't even be cast on our pets (charmed or otherwise) that everyone one else gets. I've bought the clickies to help keep my character working during a raid using LoN cards, or whatever I can find. I still resent the fact that people that can play a card game are getting items that were at one time. I have paid to play for 13 of the 15 years, I buy Kronos from time to time to help other players stay in the game. So do a lot of other enchanters, because by nature the ones that do more than charm solo are TEAM players and it's about time SoE started taking that class seriously and start looking at ways to revitalize the class instead of micro-nerfing anything that looks useful.
they did it already .... Ethereal Weave Rk. III 2013-05-10 19:51 Changed Recast Time from 24.0 seconds to 36.0 seconds 2013-05-10 19:51 Changed Mana cost from 4758 to 4948
I agree. I think that a good case can be made for a long term effort to get rid of the enchanters right from the time SoE took over from Verant. We are the red-headed stepchildren of EQ. I may be missing something, but I don't remember getting much, if any, aggro from casting Phantasmal Unity Rune, even if I'm spamming it. The major aggro I get comes from Aegis of Abstraction going off. I don't use it any more unless I do need to get aggro, particularly AoE aggro. I have heard other enchanters say they don't get any aggro from that, but I have no idea what the differences are.
Wow hadn't heard about that. Does it still proc Ethereal Weave Chance 35% of the time, is EWC still the same (32% each Ethereal) and is Ethereal Weave Acquittal still -5147 mana?
I really like most of your posts, so don't get me wrong but i think this one was weak. I had a lot of fun with my Chanter and we usually were handled fair. I agree that Cotf sucks with a capital S (but not only for us) thou, but going back to Verant times...nah i cannot agree with that. Part of our class was always overreactions, which comes from CC paranoia =p Also Unity was extreme agro, as you simply could do a quick AE tash and then Unity agro the crap out of all mobs you did hit before. I have stolen agro from some of our best SKs etc with this fun thing. Needless to say the changes would still be ridiculous, we are the mass CC class and we should be able to agro each and every mob around us like we want. Someone responsible for Chanter stuff did once again not understand the class or what it stands for, here is a little hint you cannot make up for the fun tools (people who play chanters mainly did so because of the amount of fun things you can do with them) with adps zzZZzzz.
While other classes got 0-1 mildly-useful or rare-situation spells in CotF, we got two spells that Enchanters asked for, and that I use a lot.
