Distillate Potions gone till PoR?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Nuggziee, May 16, 2018.

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  1. Krezzy Augur

    I'm not really sure what benefit this change brought to the TLP communities at large. I can say that this affected my own play. From time to time, I liked to hit Sol B and beat down FGs, then send the few toes I collected to a Shammy buddy of mine, who would then brew up Alacrity IX vials to hand out to guildies.

    Little care packages like this make EQ fun for a lot of players. Several of my friends benefited from the distillate recipes in pretty small, mainly social ways.

    Restoring original alchemy looks like a pain in the rear. Would it be possible to split the difference here and restore the distillates that aren't seen as abusive? Haste, for example, is superseded in every way by an Enchanter buff in PoTranq. Distillates of Alacrity are just convenience items.
  2. Ahze Journeyman

    Think I prefer the "tin foil hat bit" at least that had a logic chain behind the change, in line with your choices about xp rates on Coirnav.

    Instead you want us to believe that you think originalism has some virtue. And that doing partial originalism by removing the distillates is ok, but there is no need to go back to the really original setup with the potions that were replaced by distillates.

    Except, of course, that click from bags is ok for some reason. This makes perfect sense truly.

    What tradeskill are we going to wreck next? First there was poison-making, then research, and now alchemy gets a turn. Do you have any suggestions for how to level alchemy to the levels required for Brilliant Apatite of Pure Ferocity in OoW if the distillates are not present until a later era? Looking at the eqtc alchemy quick list and the eqtc TLP only potion list does not actually seem to list any combines that are even vaguely economically realistic (links below). Maybe we can skill up by farming hundreds and hundreds of OoW gem drops! There isn't a single combine on that list over 250 other than OoW gem combines, Distillates, Elixirs, and Philters.

    Why do this? Guess we will see what the front office says when you suggest they remove two potential micro transactions.

    Alchemy quick list - http://www.eqtraders.com/recipes/recipe_quicklist.php?rsa=alchemy

    Alchemy TLP only reciepes - http://www.eqtraders.com/recipes/re...emy&sub=oldworld&sb=item&menustr=080010700000
  3. discordkitty Augur

    I think most people are asking to be made whole again, which is a fair expectation for any company providing a product or service.

    These potions existed in this era under old recipes and did similar things. If you're going to take the revamped potions away, make us whole again but providing the in-era combines and their potions.
  4. Deavirtus Lorekeeper

    Ngreth, While I agree if they are to overpowered for the era to make they are to overpowered to be sold on the marketplace, for some of use this isn't the issue. I don't care about the potions being available in the marketplace, I care that I can no longer level my alchemy past 244 on Agnarr. We don't have 'old' alchemy recipes on the TPL servers we have a weird mash of both old and new alchemy that made an approximation of classic alchemy. Some of our old recipes (Potion of Assailing, Potion of Dulsehound,, Potion of Undead's Recourse, Potion of Graveyard Dust, Potion of Calimony, etc.) were changed to create distillates instead, those recipes are gone rather then reverted back to the original potions.
    Please, look at the skill up path for alchemy and make sure this is what is truly intended.
    Thank you,
    Tkelah of Agnarr
  5. Fumi-chan Augur

    Ngreth I know you deal with a lot of crap, but there's no way in hell disabling these potions on the DBG store will be approved by higher ups. Oversight or not, you guys at the end of the day are a business and you need to make money. Removing DBG potions will hurt your bottom line and I guarantee you there is some exec in your company who will throw a hissy fit if these are disabled. Personally I don't care either way what is decided, I just think the answer you're going to receive is a hearty, "lolno".

    tldr: Store potions are fine, just like 40 slot backpacks when we all know those weren't in classic. TLP servers make DBG quite a bit of money off the marketplace.
  6. Darchon_Xegony Augur

  7. Dailor Elder

    Thank you DB for proving that Phinigel is the #1 son, and waiting to do this so we are not punished.

  8. Ryak Augur

    He'll never get his achievement points for 250 and 300. Basically unplayable.

    To be fair, I do think that any classic recipes having previously been converted to distillates should probably be reinstated.

    Also, I may have caused this to happen by bringing distillates to the devs' attention 5 or 6 months ago. Oopsie.
    snailish and Dythan like this.
  9. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    I agree the entire old Alchemy set should be made available until Distillates are enabled.

    But not every tradeskill had paths to max skill until OoW offered combines up to 300 for everything.
  10. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    I'm not "punishing" anyone. It's simply true that if they are removed from normal game access because they shift the balance then they need to go from the marketplace as well.

    It's also true that we don't make every change in the game to "bilk players" of their money.

    Sure, overall we want to make a profit, but sometimes that includes making changes some players don't like. And sometimes it also entails removing a small profit for balance reasons.
    snailish likes this.
  11. taliefer Augur

    its not unreasonable for people to look at the distilates being removed for being "out of era" and seeing the exact same buffs available on the cash store in 4 hour durations and getting a bit irked. tin foil hat or not, they should have either both been removed or both been allowed to stay.

    especially when "out of era" is a completely invalid excuse to many people when the very characters we play are out of era. higher skill caps, innate AA, and the fact that ALL spells are much more mana efficient than they were originally. chasing "era appropriateness" is a vast waste of time and many players roll their eyes any time we see that used as a reason for changes.

    and lets be honest, the only potion that was even questionable were the heal over time ones. rather than nerf all the distillates, was there any thought given to just adjusting the reuse time on those? or was the "OUT OF ERA" button hit because it was simply easier?

    TLPS were never meant to be an exact replication of old eq, or if they were its news to me. any chance we can get an updated "vision" the devs have for these servers? if we are leaning towards a bastardization of "era appropriateness" based strictly on timeline rather than common sense of if something actually fits in, thatd be good to know.
  12. Fumi-chan Augur

    Ngreth I agree that balance is desirable, but at this point all removing store potions is gonna do is further piss off and alienate players on Coirnav and future TLPs. Unless you have some statistic that states people are leaving the game because of store potions more than they are sticking around, there's just no logical reason to remove some of these features which provide quality of life improvements to players (especially those who solo).

    For the record, this applies to the distillates removed as well. Either remove all "out of era" potions or leave them in, but in any case be prepared to face even further backlash as players begin to get tired of the constant knee jerk decisions being made lately.
  13. Ahze Journeyman

    No one is suggesting you are bilking people that I have seen. That implies some kind of dishonesty - there is absolutely nothing like that happening. Nor do I personally think that you Ngreth have ever been given a vote on this issue and I do not mean to personally insult you. I do think your bosses have put you in an impossible position defending this change.

    The problem is Distillate of Celestial Healing and Distillate of Divine Healing. There is a more narrow and directed fix.

    Also 244 x 1.15 = 272 which is not 95% for a 335 combine.
  14. discordkitty Augur

    Again, this could be fixed by restoring the old alchemy potions and combines that were available before the revamp to distilates. That's in era. Why do people have to 100% lose out?
  15. Kahna Augur

    DBGs needs to stop rolling back QoL changes. These things weren't fun in 1999, we just didn't have any other choice. We do now. Your current round of changes (ZEM mods, Potion nerfs, instance exp nerfs) these are all making the game less enjoyable and more tedious. Stop reading the Pantheon reddit, those people who think absolutely everyone needs to be dependent on absolutely everyone else are crazy. Give us back our mana regen, health regen, and haste pots. You can keep the big heal pots if you must, but stop with the annoying changes that make me not want to log into your game.

    And no, I don't need those pots to complete content, they just make completing the content more enjoyable. I don't need to sit around for 5 minutes medding so that I can chat with people. I can hit the "Push to talk" button just fine mid combat.
    Fumi-chan likes this.
  16. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    In no way are potions merely QoL.

    At level 65 you have access to:

    14 Mana Regen potion - This is equal to KEI Regen
    7/7 Spiritual potion - This is equal to 59 Beastlord SP
    600 HP/tick 4 Tick HoT - This is equal to 62 Cleric HoT
    50% Melee Haste - This allows Melee to nearly cap their Haste solo

    That is in no way QoL. That's damn near replacing many class buffs by spending 10 plat on a potion every 30min or 10plat every other AE cast.

    On Agnarr it's meant to be timelocked. Stuff should take you long to complete. If you are having to spend an additional 5min messing because you didn't bring a beastlord or Enchanter with you, fine. Youve got until the end of time to accomplish your goals in PoP.

    On other servers you get them in DoN. If you can't play without these just join a server in DoN and you can.
    snailish likes this.
  17. Zanarnar Augur

    Those p**sed me off more then anything... no we can't have BST to start with... even though they are fully itemized in class->velious (I have a near full set of PoGrowth BST armor in my monk bank that my GL thought it would be funny to hand me, to add to my frustration)

    I don't really have a dog in this fight but it does seem to be a very bad design choice to remove the revamped potions without being able to put the classic combines back in... I mean for me its moot, I won't ever start over on another TLP again but it did always seem silly to have the bst mana regen buff before we could play a bst...
  18. Ahze Journeyman

    It seems to be your position that removing these things will improve game play and make things more fun. That seems to be the minority position in this thread at least and I certainly fail to see how they would improve things.

    The point that the healing potions make a lot of encounters easier is valid. I think their addition to the game is a good change since there is no overabundance of healers looking to raid and people want to be able to do the content, but there is a logical position that these particular distillates are OP. So if something must be changed that seems to be the greatest valid problem.

    Removing the mana regen items and haste simply slows down solo and small group play, seeks to re impose the requirement that most productive activities must include an enchanter. These potions have next to no effect on raiding. Replacing those class buffs is exactly the point and what is desired.

    How is affirmative action for enchanters and beastlords fun?
  19. The Hated One Elder

    Speaking from an experienced player stance I have a few points to make. You guys keep messing with the game and people will just leave. Most the people that play EQ are vets. You keep messing with Zem exp, decreasing exp rates, taking potions or things away that allow us to efficiently level past the boring (grinding levels) and folks are just going to throw their hands up and walk. What makes it even more mind boggling is your doing this on fast unlock servers. Sure back in the day we would get an expansion and slow play made sense because the next one was 1 year or more away. We were learning new content. We were exploring and grinding and learning. Now we want the boring to go by fast so we can just dink around a few hours on the fun. Most of us are adults with other stuff to do...grinding is not one of them. Making changes to potions that have been in the game for YEARS just seems stupid and will tick people off. Once again I am baffled by recent decisions.
  20. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    It's not affirmative action for enchanters and beastlords. There are a number of ways to overcome the loss of these potions beyond adding an Enchanter to your group or a beastlord.

    Druid skin adds 8 mana Regen, more than a spiritualism potion.
    Magician mod rod when clicked on timer accounts for 7 mana Regen, equal to a spiritualism potion.
    Bard chorus adds 22 mana regen more than both a clarity and spiritualism potion, plus they have Haste and OH.
    Necromancer mind wrack can add 300 mana for everyone in group if you're dealing with caster mobs.
    Shamans can buff Haste too

    There are plenty of ways to generate more mana and Haste your group. Invite other people to your group. Not every class is intended to solo. There's a reason mercenaries aren't on TLPs until SoD.

    Or you could just pay an Enchanter a few plat and get 4.5 hours of KEI before you head out to EXP.
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