Dev: Camp Rules on TLP

Oh, and I said "train" in group chat by accident.

Feels like an excessive amount of overreaction about loot drops here so far but really seems like what we should be doing is requesting workable alternative features, they even gave us a link for where to make those requests less than a month ago https://www.everquest.com/news/daybreak-community-issue-tracker-eq-eq2. I don't think instancing is the answer since they already said it won't happen and the only Pre-LDoN content that was instanced that we have ever gotten was a rework of Plane of Time, which may have been sufficient to convince them they don't want to invest in doing so again. I'd suggest asking them to create a mechanic that allowed a raid of players to trigger one world spawn like a Vox or Naggy or respawn of a plane per week, independent of its normal respawn timer but only after the current expansion has been out for at least 3 months or the next expansion in line has been released.

I understand that instances take the load off contested group content. But there was still competition for those camps. The world didn't end. The world didn't end on Fippy either.

There is no solution the GM should choose from to enforce. The late player has to wait for his chance at the mob. Wait right there if the player thinks a spot might open up or come back another time if the player has something better to do. If he engages the mob while the group is killing it, he should be suspended. Five people, ten people, twenty people, could be waiting. It doesn't matter.

You might respond that Everquest has never officially recognized a "camp." It's certainly true that GM responses in a situation like this have varied over the course of history. But one thing is true - engaging an already engaged mob has always been considered killstealing (or attempted killstealing on failure). Killstealing cannot exist if there's no such thing as an engagement right. If the group is actively clearing these spawns and engaging the mobs, the player should be suspended for the player's actions.

As a new member perhaps you are not aware that we have come up with tons of ideas to alleviate the problems we knew would be coming... this has been on going for months. You see what it has gotten us?
Your suggestion was brought forth 2 months ago and hashed around and revamped and reworked and holes shot in it for the past 2 months. We have been desperate for ideas and even the most far fetched was tossed around in a effort to combat this crap we have now...
The problem isn't the community, or our lack of ideas or trying or anything like that...the problem is DB.

Nothing like a Johny-come-lately to tell us what we should be doing...

Perhaps the player who showed up late to the camp should wander Norrath and find what the player could? Instead of saying "well I'll just bring enough DPS and to hell with whoever gets in my way?"

This is the first post I agree on you with... why is it that the person doing the work to hold down whatever it is has to share? Why can't the ones coming in behind wait their turn?

Actually I was confused by your last post where you quoted me but didn't say anything further. I wasn't sure if you were agreeing with me or not =p

I might add, all of my posts are saying the same thing that you just agreed with. I am a proponent of engagement rights. I am a proponent of people waiting their turns for mobs. I am against DPS racing for group content. I think the rule change is bad for the server, bad for the community, and ultimately bad for DBG.

The competition for group content in OoW+ zone isn't even remotly comparable to the competition in classic ( especially original only).

you can alway XP in some instance, or choose from several different hunting ground... most of the gear, you could find in an instance or sold for currency... only a couple rare spot were camped for augs/clickies.

This is nothing like what's gonna happen on ragefire:

lvl 40+ XP spot are extremly limited... parts of Lguk, parts of Sol B... that goblin island in OoT... a couple guards here and there...the competition for gear will be extreme since you can't find entire sets of armor in some random instance.

And that's why we should discourage DPS racing in group content. The last thing you need in already-contested content is no way to police bad behavior.

Hmmm

I believe you played on Fippy, so you know that advice is nonsense, this server will be even more crowded than Fippy was, so every mob that drops anything useful will be camped.

Knowing ahead of time that the CS staff was going to be short you should have voted to open at Velious.

Should of voted for more than classic.

I voted for Kunark and most of the people that I know voted for either Kunark or Velious. Nobody voted for a DPS race policy change.

What I don't understand is how we can have 3 GMs on every night on Beta but we're going to mysteriously lack the ability to police the PNP for a few weeks intensely and then spot checking for a few months after that. We already are going to have some definite GM presence due to glitches / bugs / crashes. If suspensions and bans for violations of the PNP were swift, the threat of the rule of law would be sufficient to keep the majority of players acting properly when the GMs aren't around because, again, raid guilds will need their DPS to contest actual raid content.

yup that is what me and my buddies are doing. Changing are group to fix the op classes and the new policy.

I find this deplorable coming from a representative of DBG. You've just given every socially maladjusted, self hating miscreant license to be a complete jerk.

I'm not sure you could create a more hostile environment if you tried at this point. This server is going to be nothing but drama, overcrowding, and misery. As if the game already wasn't going to be jam packed with OOE damage mages.....lol....what a joke.

It's one thing to not enforce a camp or play nice policy, it's another to just flat out tell people to be on their worst behavior.

Those aren't GM's. They have GM tag but they are devs... the people who will be working on the next expansion again as soon as this goes live.

yeah.... I might just skip this coming back if there are no repercussions for stealing named mobs if someone is only waiting for that to spawn.

I probably should have been more exact with my wording. I know who they actually are. But if they can afford to have the actual devs - not just regular GMs - monitoring the Beta, the employees who actually generate content for this game...they are somehow unable to have their CS resources that still exist tracking their own rules, over a very limited number of classic EQ camps, for a very limited time?

I do agree that if a new arrival arrives while you are killing the mob, he shouldn't take it away from you.

But after that, if all players are sitting there waiting the next 10 minutes for the mob to spawn again, they should all have a fair shot at that one when it comes. If they're afraid they might lose the DPS race, they should make arrangements, but if other arrangements can't be made, then it's DPS. And idamaging the mob 1 second before anyone else, when everyone else was clearly there waiting, should not be a claim to the mob.

I have never done anything but leave, or wait for the other guy to leave, but this server will be so packed that that approach has to be re-thought.

If everyone is forced to accept the miniscule share of content that they would get if you did the math considering how full the server is, it would cause people to leave of boredom. Why not let people fight for it instead of rationing it out?

But we need to recognize Daybreak Gaming Company for their declination to instance or find other solutions. You kinda wish they would at least do the same kind of instancing for LGuk or some other 40+ xp zone as they are doing for newbie zones, so that people can at least continue to gain xp, even if they don't do raid instancing.

Probably because they aren't GMs, they are the developers prepping the server for release, and they were monitoring people telling them what zones were not working, they were not monitoring petitions for camp disputes.

We can discuss group content as it relates to this, but on raid content, this is unquestionably a great decision. Too many guilds were randomly ordered to leave as a result of petitions. If they change this as relates group content, fine, but raids need to be DPS racing.