Could we please get a definitive yes/no if [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] is bannable?

Some more punctuation would have made that humungus sentence more understandable.

You and the other hardcore players' playstyle is just as, if not more, harmful to the server's health and longevity than allowing people to box more efficiently. You mentioned "The Vision" in an earlier post. Do you think socking and selfish raiding was included in that?

I think more so than [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software], Macro Quest in conjunction with [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] was the problem. Macro Quest use is, and always has been rampant on Fippy Darkpaw, Rarely are individuals punished for the use of Macro Quest, and with the EULA more or less being entirely ignored, I don't think it'll matter one way or the other what any single person's idea of "healthy" means come TLP 3.0.

I think that's a very big generalisation to imply non-boxers can barely play one character. What data do you have to back up that assumption?

So what you are saying is, this game is boring so that is your excuse for using a program to do all the work for you. Maybe its not the game being boring that is the problem, how about we look to science for your problem.

* Using my superior interwebz searching skills*

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Bam

I found your affliction.

1. What is attention deficit disorder (add)? attention deficit disorder is a biologically based condition causing a persistent pattern of difficulties resulting in one or more of the the following behaviors: inattention. hyperactivity. impulsivity.

Boxers have ADD? What are you trying to say, and what does that have to do with anything?

I don't think it can be banned it alters the game in no way. Just with movements and keys no?

Great question which should be asked. I do believe, yes, that selfish (competitive) raiding was part of that vision.

I do not believe socking is. Socking was what guilds fell back on because Fippy GM's chose to honor first in force rather than DPS racing. Socking is just a crude euphemism for first in force. If GM's would have honored DPS racing, no one would have ever showed up to sock mobs before their spawn windows opened. A first in force requirement meant that you had to show up long before the window opened.

DPS racing would have been so much better. You would have seen guilds showing up to the same area at the same time to fight for the mob. I have no idea why GM's didn't go for this. I don't know anyone who thought socking was better than racing.

Depends on how extreme it gets. How many mages, shadowknights, or wizards does one person need to control at once before you consider the game altered? 6, 12, 24? The only limit is money (subs) and computational power (copies of EQ you can run).

the huge boxing crews that took out raid mobs from guilds was wrong but the easiest way for DBG to prevent that is quadruple the raid mobs hp id say plus they did fix sk if not mistaken

For people that like to solo bot raids the analogy would be -- its like have an army of mercenaries available to you with the following exceptions -

Your character(s) get all the experience
You don't have to spend any platinum to maintain
They don't run away when things go south
You can choose any class you wish (not just tank, healer, rogue, wizard)
You pay real money for in game advantages (accounts and botting software)

These advantages disrupt gameplay and result in RMT - if you thing someone is going to pay in the neighborhood of $275.00 a month to bot a 18 player army without trying to get some of that money back, you are just naïve.

That's one reason some people (myself included) have looked at alternative ways to dis-incentivize the massive boxing - again I am not against boxing, but feel it should take more than just playing one character. Suggestions have including adding mercs to the station store and making all loot no drop - the no drop item in particular will go a long way toward a healthy economy and limiting (but not eliminating) RMT.

I guess we can't know for sure without directly asking Brad and the original design team, but I tend to disagree. Looking at what they (Brad and some of the others I think) are working on now, they're apparently trying to blur the lines between grouping and raiding. I interpret that as meaning they don't like the ultra competitive raiding that we see on progression and elsewhere.

Further, the current curators of Classic EQ have come out and said that this kind of behavior is basically people being a**holes. Because they work with Brad, at least to some extent, I put more stock in their opinion than I do just another player, even if that player has played for a long time.

To come full circle and get back on topic, the vision has shifted from whatever it was, to "maximize dollars." I don't see Daybreak changing their minds on something like [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software], when a potential result is less subscribed accounts.

I think daybreak won't give a definitive answer to that question.It's all gonna go to how disruptive those using [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] gonna be. My suggestion is if you use it be a nice person and don't block other people from getting mobs and you shouldn't have any problem.Start taking all the mobs and daybreak might say you are monopolizing area.The key is how many people gonna complain on your behavior.I remember on combine that 1 guy swarming a whole area where there was a few groups and when people on /ooc ask him to go kill mobs somewhere else they got trained then those that got train ask for help from their guilds and next thing you knew that person disappeared.I imagine soe at the time now daybreak don't like that kind of behavior.I agree with Path that the more toon you box the better the chance that they gonna intervene.

Well as these threads appear at least once a month both here or the other daybreak forums and not once over the last several years has a Dev or a CS person stepped in and said "oh yea, that's illegal!" and not once have we heard about someone complaining "I got banned for using ISO!!..... I would take that as passive agreement.

They may not like it, and they are not going to support it as they make no money from it themselves, but they seem to be willing to turn a blind eye to it

I should mention I do not use ISO when boxing myself, I just use the old Alt+tab

I. S. Boxer. Is this illegal ?
Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whulfgar, Oct 24, 2012.

Whulfgar Elder

I.S. Boxer is a program I've recently heard about, where you are able to operate as many toons as you want to play from 1 screen.

My question is simply put. Is this os .. Against Eula ?

I'd love to have a Dev answer this to settle the debate. Thanks.

Piestro Augur

It is not in and of itself against our rules. It can be used, especially in conjunction with other programs, to violate rules. And for Everchanter's benefit I will include an obligatory "shhhhhhh!"

Piestro

Senior Community Relations Manager

Piestro, Oct 24, 2012

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/i-s-boxer-is-this-illegal.800/

Not sure how much more clear or definitive this post could be, only thing would be if the companies opinion has changed since this post.

Error in the side of caution and stay away from third party programs. Alt + Tabbing is very effective and quick these days.. computers are amazing

Two monitors + alt tab or clicking = challenging and fun.

Think of the time we spend on each of our toons ... is it worth getting banned for a bit of simplicity? No shot.

Saying that you are being deliberately obtuse is describing your actions, not your character.

You are the only one who has made personal attacks in this thread.

i never even bothered to use ISB. i played up to five guys at once just alt tabbing and it was not difficult, at least in TLPS content. i boxed group content through TSS without it, no major issues.

on the other hand is going to wreck this server again if there is one GM taking a week to answer petitions whenever somebody z axis ports over my head. it will be funny to see the day 1 RMTers camping pyzjin for GBS, especially since that zone might end up instanced and exploitable. funsies!!

last time around i saw some level 30 magician named Asdfgg rocket past me and pull the PH out of loh off the top of that little mountain where one of the wanderers spawns. always the first thing i remember when i hear someone complain about usage.

Years of inviting people to group with me when I only feel like playing 1-2 toons and seeing the absolute terrible dps of random LFG people.

Obviously not everyone is that bad but so many people are that it forces us to box.

I guess that every mmo player who has played a game beyond the original part of eq has ADD then, wanting to do more than push 1 button every 6-10 seconds(60 or so if your a cleric) isn't ADD it's wanting a more complex game, boxing provides that early on, and EQ evolving provides that later on.

And actually what I said is it's boring early on so much so that you don't need [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software], all you need is to be able to hit 3 buttons alt+tab > 1.

The problem isn't Boxing nor the use of IS Boxer in and of itself. Its honestly not even an issue when boxing 20-30 characters (wait, stay with me here).

Honestly, it all boils down to how you use it. The people 2 boxing or using 30+ boxes are fine providing they are not being pricks about how they interact with others. If someone puts together 30+ boxes and uses that to go drop raid mobs and in the process screws 30 other people out of the experience of raiding that target? then YES thats a problem and that guy deserves banned and then some. Same with someone boxing as little as 2 boxes using those 2 characters to act like a complete to others is a problem and they too should be banned and thrown into the deepest pit of hell.

Ultimately if there isn't any griefing going on and nobodys experience is being directly harmed then who the heck cares? Mind your own business.

I think there needs to be stronger controls over griefing of others rather than asserting stronger controls over concepts like boxing or the use of IS Boxer. If you setup a better way to process, confirm and remove griefers from the game then the rest will naturally sort itself out. Honestly I'd just force a server transfer to a Griefer server for anyone caught and make it like $40.00 if you want to transfer the character back. Call it an Tax