Could we please get a definitive yes/no if [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] is bannable?

Thank God I am a women, so it doesn't apply to me.

I dislike boxing players. Well the ones that box so many accounts they actually don't even play the MM part of MMO. With that said, I wish they'd ban all accounts using 3rd party software.

Even [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software].

My opinion DOES matter -- as does everyone's. Daybreak as a company has not come out and said anything to the contrary regarding this particular program, so until the do, I will continue state my opinion.

How is the Piestro quote anything but definitive? That is the equivalent of Roshen saying it now. Do you think that reevaluating decisions that have already been made is a good use of a smaller development team's time?

LoL. He responded to the original poster on a thread entitled "I.S. Boxer. Is this illegal?" and you are going to quibble over the point that he didn't actually type out the word [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] in his reply? Here's a hint--the first word of his post is the pronoun "It" and the only possible reference is [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software]. No one could possibly confuse what he was talking about, except someone being deliberately obtuse because they don't like the answer he gave.

Really Machen, again with the name calling and personal attacks? I had thought you were better than that.

Some of us can still hold out hope that DBG, even though the people have not changed will not follow in SOE's poor decisions. I don't what to try and figure out what they are saying, I want them to come out and say it.

Further, [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] has mad a lot of changes since 2012, and I would hope every now and then it would be re-evaluated. Further still, if one of the linked threads Piestro said that decision was based by looking at the [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] website and looking for specific key words. Given that the new [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] uses application virtualization (their words, not mine) if a look was done now its entirely possible that a different result would occur.

To be honest I don't give two what was said before, I think it should be banned because it's more than just a passive 3rd party application. GamParse, for contrast, is something entirely different, as it's just reading data already available. [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] feeds input into the game which couldn't be input without it or similar 3rd party software (and I don't have any specific 3rd party software in mind, it could be keyboard mapping of a gamepad with macro functionality or Macro Quest itself, I'm not picky).

It's easy to blur all this stuff together, but I think it's even easier to just draw the line at "this program lets me know something" (like a UI overlay showing timers) vs "this program lets me do something" (like control multiple characters with a single key stroke). I say, more power to the former. And let's get rid of the latter - it doesn't make for a better EQ experience and in my opinion it's contrary to The Vision.

So you would be okay with a program that lets you know where all the mobs are located and what loot they have. After all. You aren't doing anything. It is just knowledge.

Banning [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] isn't going to get rid of the boxers. Or even make life at the early levels that much more difficult than just having stuff up on multiple screens. It's impact is minimal. I have never understood boxer hate.

Besides the problem with [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] is why it works with basically everything - fundamentally [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] doesn't do ANYTHING you can't do yourself with a bit of basic knowledge. [Note: It's beyond me though, but a programming friend had done the same with free time at work... back during Velious]

Anything based on DirectX you can make calls for while it's in the background, [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] just makes it easier.

The only way to truly get rid of [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] would be to move to something other than DirectX which is fundamentally impossible. When was the last time you heard of a PC game not using it... =/

Sorry, good point, should have clarified but these forums don't allow editing. When I talk about knowing information I am not talking about packet sniffing or accessing memory strings to mine additional data more than is presented at face value by the EverQuest client.

I don't care about boxing itself, but I don't understand on what level it can be healthy for the game for one human to control 6, 12, or 20+ characters at once so they can single handedly take down intended for groups or even raids.

Mind you, this is only half the problem. The other half is that it feeds directly into the RMT aspect, which is against the EULA but is unenforceable/unenforced (short of someone just saying they do it I don't know how you would catch someone, and even then I am sure they'd just get a slap on the wrist).

You have kind of this of problems and SOE wasn't willing to get their hands dirty to fix it. DBG ought to try, but I'm sure they won't bother either.

On Fippy premium content was locked down by top tier guilds competing for it but when they moved on much of it still didn't become available to more casual guilds because RMT box armies would move in instead. I probably wouldn't be so opposed to this if it was just some guy who wanted to see if he could take down Nagafen on his own for the novelty of it, but when you have players monopolizing content singlehandedly for the obvious purposes of selling the gear on Player Auctions, then you start crossing lines. The thing though is that I'm not going to go on some moral crusade against those players when DBG freely allows it. I'll group with them, I'll guild with them - I won't police DBG's game, but for the integrity of their own game they ought to take a firmer approach.

I thinkISBoxer. And boxing in general should be banned till gates of discord. Boxing with ovepowered toons ruins classic through pop. When more stuff becomes instanced it's not such a huge issue.

Most boxer hate comes from people who can barely play 1 toon, [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] really isn't needed for classic>oow since everyone has so few buttons to push at those levels anyways. The only thing that stops me from falling asleep at my keyboard below level 70 is playing more than 1 toon.

Got a warrior? push taunt/kick/provoke, bind em all to 1 key /sleep
SK? spam snare for agro /sleep
Pally? flash of light until stuns then stuns, again multibind and /sleep
wiz/mage? 1 nuke, bind the same key to pet attack for mage
chanter? if your puller sucks you wont be bored, good puller/tank and pretty much just recrack/haste every 30 mins.
healer? if your tank sucks same as enchanter, good tank though is a snoozefest
necro is slightly less boring since you have multiple dots to cast
rogue? backstab and backstab then backstab again
monk, well I guess you get to pull
bard, melody and sleep, if pulling its more fun
ranger, attack on and nuke or something, maybe snare I dunno rangers suck no matter what they do

Basically what im saying is you don't NEEED [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] at these levels, you can alt tab and push the 1 button every now and then, it just makes your life a little bit easier.

Edit: Because I keep seeing people say you can't edit posts on here

Ehhhh... many would beg to differ.

the moral to story is less boxing most likely still wouldn't get you a group if that's the reason you dislike boxing , I dislike grouping because honestly I don't care what the reason is you go afk longer then 3 mins in my group you can find another group
and before folks use the well this is a mmo excuse or rant I get plenty of mmo experience off general chat and grouping with folks I do like pugs are nightmares and we all know it , id rather have a box that does what I want it to when I want it to then depend on someone who has just ninja afked or is asleep or just outright sucks cause they playing madden or watching movie while leechin exp

Let's be clear about some things. No company is ever going to say that "X" program is allowed or not allowed. Because the moment they do, that program can add a feature that is game breaking and now the game company has to live with their prior endorsement. So that's never going to be black and white.

What they can and do say is as long as you are playing the game within the allowed system, playing multiple characters is fine. This has been the case for EQ/EQ2 and WoW, etc. for years. The common refrain is that as long as you are at the keyboard, pushing keys that cause "normal" character inter-actions, then you are fine. The moment you start warping to mobs, bypassing geometry, taking advantage of NPCs/vendors or other players, then you're in trouble.

Simply: Tanks take hits, Enchies slow, Healers heal and DPS attacks. As long as that's all your doing, does it really matter if the 6 toons in the group are one player or 6? Only if the one player is running some kind of script where everything is automated.

And let's be clear, LEGAL AFK EXPING ALREADY EXISTS in EQ. All you need to do is get 3 toons in a group with 3 Mercs (Tank/DPS/Healer) and park your butt someplace where mobs pop. When you come back in 24 hours, you'll have gained exp. All completely legal. Yeah you might get trained, but it's not a bannable offense to park your toon in an agro spot and let the mercs kill the mob.

LOL look at all the idiots complaining about boxing.

If you don't like boxing in EQ, you're going to have a bad time.

I find many of the anti boxing people were the players who could not get groups because they would ninja loot, train their own group for LolZ, make inappropriate comments to any females in the group, go afk either halfway though a fight or for a hour at a time...and continually whine in group chat how the last 6 guild leaders they had were meanies because they got booted from every one of them.

Boxers are the people who used to group with them.

No it isn't, until they release an official statement saying it is.

^you on getting a definitive answer from staff that's already been covered before .

This is all pretty hilarious to me, but I will have to file these comments with the casuals who were complaining about the possibility of instancing.

Not planning to join a top tier raid guild? Not planning on 12 boxing a mage army? I hope you don't care about getting your epic til Luclin or Planes.

Like most things, the problem is [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] being allowed isn't really the guy who uses it to box one or two extra characters, it's when it's pushed to the extreme and now someone is boxing 20 mages or 20 shadowknights and now with a press of a button they can do 32k damage instantly.

This is again an issue which will not directly affect me, just like instances wouldn't directly affect me. I am just surprised how many people think the above being allowed is good for the game and healthy for the server.