Can only DPS at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes

The bulk of a Warrior comes from just a few abilities. You get the biggest benefits from Defensive Proficiency - now "free" with your weapon set up, Last Stand, No Time to Bleed, and Brace for Impact. The other abilities are simply not as important/useful. Same with holding aggro, so while it's not accurate to say that Warriors only have to use one ability, it is a lot easier to get by as a Warrior than it is to get by as a Knight.

What more do you need to kill your group or wipe the raid, you mean?

I feel sorry for y'all. You must have played with some damn crappy, lazy warriors.

It's not about lazy/crap. You can push your limits as a Warrior, but you don't have to except on raids, and it doesn't make as much of a difference as a Knight. No matter how many times you press those other cool downs, it just doesn't make that much of a difference - in fact all those other abilities put together, doesn't even equal one Defensive.

Yes, you do. It is the difference between mediocre (does what she needs to do to barely get by) and great. it is the same for any class in this game. Imho.

Why is there always this knee-jerk reaction in this forum?

<<"Mages do "x"? Well by god wizards have to do "y"." "Warriors do "x"? Well by god knights have to do "y">>

Every class has its challenges, weaknesses, strengths, etc.

Math doesn't change just because you try harder.

on a parse does 2 people ever meet the exact same? either in defense or offense? the one that is taking less damage or doing more is usually trying harder. So yes math can be effected in this game by trying harder.

Put on field guardian when another war doesn't, math changed, trying harder.
Put on 2h during a burn when another leaves 1h on, dps goes up, math changed, trying harder.

That is the difference with activated abilities, they can change the game, and we all have to realize, not everyone clicks everything the same, or as often, so things can vary between players of the classes quite a bit.

Yeah, go hang with a warrior who only hits taunt and tell me how long the group lives.

Stop arguing just to argue. The many tools a warrior has to use at her disposal are parse-able, so you're being silly.

I know a lot of warriors in this thread have been dense about the issues facing mages. I was not one of them, so take your warrior aggression elsewhere please.

I'm not arguing that you can't improve your results by a few % by trying harder. But that you can't change the fact that the bulk of a Warrior's defense comes from just a few abilities. A Warrior played to its full ability is > a Warrior that just uses those few abilities, by the difference is not as big as in the case of Knights. A Warrior who only uses No Time to Bleed every five minutes and Last Stand every ten minutes is still able to tank. A Knight who only uses two cool downs, and no spells, can not tank.

That is all relative, if I take a full raid geared max war and go out in the group game, sure, the difference is negligible. If I take a say a 105 war without max AA in group gear, doing the grind to the same place, No, there is a huge difference when they start clicking more.

Knights are the same way, as a raid geared knight, I hardly if ever click defensive discs unless its a big pull, or a named with special tricks, otherwise I don't need to. On the other hand, when I watch group geared knights do the same they get tore up.

The few % is usually between equally geared and equal targets, and that few % is what makes a successful tank sought after and the other, well not.

I guess I just want to point out that when you make statements like that it has a base point, and is usually biased. So when looking at just the math, and taking out your "play" experiences, skill makes up a ton of any class, way more than it used to.

So, I guess when those two abilities are on cool down, we are just in God mode needing nothing at all? /flex

Just curious on this mode of thinking, how did this become a comparison between warriors and knights? One, that has nothing to do with my response to Phrovo and two, it has nothing to do with the OP.

I have no rat in this debate and in fact I rather Warriors remain easy to play, because it makes it easier for me to box, but it's simply dumb to me to say that Warriors and Knights get the same benefits from using only a few abilities. Simply look at abilities such as: http://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=43284, which you have to use every 15 seconds, and which makes up a huge difference in Knight defense.

On top of that, Knights have to cast in order to do DPS, to heal themselves, and to get aggro, and as any Knight is going to tell you, this demands full attention because spells don't always go off and you can't just use and forget. Warriors don't have to worry about this because practically all of their abilities are instant and very, very few of them are able to "fail." Ever see a Shadow Knight / Paladin try to cast a heal through 4-5 monsters hitting on them? It's not fun.

Warriors, by contrast, don't need to worry about any of that. Sure, you have a few armor abilities that you can try to keep up, and your aggro abilities are just as frustrating as Knights' after the changes, but when it comes to defense and ability to tank, a Warrior is a lot easier to use than a Knight. I don't say this because I'm a Knight player - I'm not, actually - but because that's simply the way it is when I use these classes in my group.

OK, and we will leave it at that.

....because boxing with your alt warrior is totally the same as playing one in a raid, or in a real group doing tough content/names/etc. Totes.

With that, I am done. This has been a ridiculous thread derailment, for no understandable reason. Carry on with whatever agenda it is that you have.

It really should be about the loss of earth pet damage mitigation and what it does to the mage in a group setting. Cmon man!

You have no idea what you are talking about . You didn't even list 3/4 of the buttons we use .
You didn't list one of the 8 that we use about every 30 secs.

Warriors in a well made group have always steamrolled group content so, saying how easy we are to play while using [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] doesn't mean you have a clue about how to really play a warrior.

You have no idea what you are talking about . You didn't even list 3/4 of the buttons we use .
You didn't list one of the 8 that we use about every 30 secs.

I mean, I comfortably tank 2-4 group mobs at a time just keeping up Defensive Proficiency, Stout Defense (or whatever the most current version is), and Pain Doesn't Hurt while keeping aggro abilities on cooldown soooooo

Yeah, I'm guessing most tanks can do easy content in lazy mode. Not all content is lazy mode though, was my point. Now, if you tell me that you only use those discs in all content including raiding TBM, I will be impressed.

If you hit a few more discs you may get up to 6 or 8 mobs and really impress the kiddies. lol