Can only DPS at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes

Ok so here is the deal. Perfect example of the problem for anyone to replicate.

105 mage, 104 earth pet, cleric merc.
Zone: Combine Dredge (TDS)
Mob: Necromaticus Abominatio

Prior to the pet aggro nerf, this mob has always been a challenge to solo with mage self buffs, aa's and discs only. I spent a while learning how to farm it for powersources for my melee guildies to use during raids. Eventually after a few deaths I had it mastered. The secret was to burn my Verulent Talon aa (mega short term DS with limited duration of hits, but with a 17 minute timer) then wait till 16 minutes had past so I could take the advantage of the DS dps, when one minute into the fight trigger it again to get it to run for another full cycle.

Now in order to do it, I have to go full bore with all DSP aa's burn all discs, and all pet defensive aa's basically the works. By doing so I consistently farmed it with no deaths as long as I didn't make any stupid errors. A cool exciting fight that I can win every time.

Now enter the pet aggro changes.....

There is no way possible (that I have found) that I can kill this mob solo without my merc running out of mana or me over aggroing and getting killed through melee damage from the mob. (now there may be some mage out there who can do it with a different technique) I am using myself as a baseline, with the techniques that I have been using for the past year.

So if it was the intention of the developers to kill the solo game, on one year old content, for mages then you have done so. Bravo.

I have been playing this game for 15 years and 346 days. With a played of 1772 days! I have taken just about every single nerf that EQ has presented to us and made the best of it. A few times I even worked with fellow mages, warriors, and guildies to help balance the class. I have submitted parses, graphs and logs over the years (just like many of you) to help make this game the best it can be.

The class is broken right now and I don't even want to log in to play anymore outside of raids. The sad thing is the solution to this issue is so simple it is not even funny.

All the developers have to do is two things.

1) Revert the changes to the way they were before the nerf.

2) Ramp up the two new pet aggro aa's so that mages can turn off pet aggro during raids and when grouping with tanks;and can also turn it on when soloing or when in groups with rogues and zerkers.

I mean you guys already have the mechanics in the game. Just reconfigure the math and make a patch.

This is really starting to piss me off.

You aren't going to find too many people sympathetic to your plight that you can't easily solo named that are supposed to still be relevant content.

So you were able to kill named mobs with just a merc....where nearly all other classes have zero chance of doing so. And now that's changed and you're angry? Maybe think about those who could never do that in the first place.

Could a full raid warrior + merc kill it? How about a berserker + merc? Monk + merc?
So why should mages be able to?

I was able to molo through HoT prog and hunters while RoF was the current expac (so they were 2 expacs removed). Warrior + cleric merc. I will grant you that at times it was incredibly slow and painful, but I did it. I don't think it is outrageous for a magician to molo one expansion back, seeing as how they are stated to be one of the best soloing classes.

Warrior is not a solo class. Monk is not a solo class. Berserker is not a solo class.Every single one of those classes is by definition limited in EverQuest to group play because they are so powerful in their archtype abilities.

The Magician's archtype ability is it's pet, and it's solo ability.

I think you'd be surprised, at least at the top end (raid geared and such, which Danille is) how many classes can molo at least some relatively current named. It's not the majority, but it's certainly not unique to Mages or even pet classes.

Classes in EQ never have been and never will be able to do the same things equally. Magician's have a niche, and that is moloing. We make sacrifices in other areas because we are proficient at doing content by ourselves. Warriors, Berserkers, and Monks all have different niches, and they aren't moloing.

Anyways, if anyone really thinks this change was aimed at stopping us from pet tanking named, you may want to recall the existence of Silent Casting. This is not to say it hasn't become more difficult, but it was actually one of the areas least affected by pet aggro.

Thanks Sancus,

Silent casting is a pretty good tool but with a 135 second duration aa with a 12 minute recast timer it does have it limitations.

I've seen a monk molo tbm named. There was a video during cotf of a cleric moloing a named (if I remember correctly).

Some classes are more dependent by design and others more independent. That's part of having a game with distinct classes versus everyone being practically the same.

10 levels and the fact HoT was the second easiest expansion in recent history (after SoD) makes the two situations not even remotely comparable.

I don't think anyone will argue that Mages are a solo class as it comes to normal group mobs, but nowhere in that description does it say you should be able to easily solo named/rare mobs.

When they get around to fixing pet agro I'm going to make a post titled "Can only complain at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes."

I wasn't thinking about the increase in levels so I will give you that as a very good point. However, I still don't see the problem with a class that is stated to be one of the best soloers being able to molo a name from the last expansion. If it were the current expansion, then maybe I could see the concern.

For what it's worth, I was able to successfully molo a Combine trash mob while the expansion was current (again, me and merc cleric) so I don't think it is that big a stretch what is being described here.

As to why I found myself in Combine moloing a trash mob, let's just say it is why I try to avoid pug groups.

I just don't understand this common outcry of "Soloers! How DARE you solo......like they told you that you could....you dirty loners". lol I would assume that some people pick those classes purely based on the descriptions that Danille handily pasted here. I mean, when I picked warrior, I read the description. It was clear to me that I was not picking a class that would be easy to solo, so I knew what I was signing up for.

Good.

Why?

In the first place, if you read Danille's post thoroughly, then what she described is by no means "easily soloing nameds". For a Mage to solo/molo it takes time, preparation, practice and time time time.

I do content solo molo in the group game and first learning, and then practicing with its attendant deaths and finally mastering (whatever) is a reward for me. It is drudgery to others, taking 10X the time to do what they're blasting through in their DPS groups doing missions, nameds, etc.

Next, the Mage ability to solo/molo is, as Sancus noted, a NICHE ability. It is the ONE thing that we can do well if the above criteria are met. It is not as if Mages are highly sought after for (almost anything else, now.) We've always been able to do this ... slowly, carefully, save the dark years of PoP to OoW. I have never understood the antagonistic attitude we have been blighted with during most of the 17 years I've played. When I hear "overpowered" , I'm speechless. We do that one thing well, others covet, and we are nerfed.

We all know the mind-blowing NICHE abilities other classes have and admire and support them, as a rule. There was even a campaign when BL's were having problems to get them up to par b/c of their relative lack of power. And it was met with smiles. Mostly.

Having a class or couple classes in the game that have a NICHE ability like this adds to the character of the game, and its diversity.

And every class has some NICHE ability (or more) and I can tell you there are more people than Mages molo/soloing out there, and they do it without the arduous process that Danille outlined, yet the focus of "OP OP OP" has been funneled into peoples' perception and onto this board so many times I have lost count of the number of nerfs over the last 2 years.

Danille's analysis is a good one. And Gnomeland adds another cogent point which is right on target. The fact that our swarm pets are no longer able to taunt off and help our main pet tank should also be one of the main points addressed here. It was yet another adaptation. And it was necessary with the 2014 changes to be able to adapt and have this available.

I frankly don't understand the venom and the relentlessness of those determined to re-mold the Mage class into something that THEY define, not something that was defined and adapted to ad infinitum so many times.

Our bag of tricks is pretty empty re: adaptations now. Some of us want to molo. Some of us need to molo due to personal circumstance. People aren't clamoring for Mage attention in groups and guilds as an OMG must-have even when we can solo/molo. The power of other classes is incredible in their niche, and unless we want a homogeneous cookie cutter game, let's just stop with the Mage finger-pointing. The Mage class is pretty cool to have around *because* of this ability. I don't want to be a super duper DPS machine. And I want to continue doing what I've been doing for years.

I love this game, I love the class, and I admire (and yes, even covet sometimes) what other classes can do. What I won't do is point my finger and call OP and other hyperbolic comments to change something on the other side of the fence.

Baramos

Yes! Another thread to complain about the same thing 5 other threads are discussing. This one will totally get the point across though because it has a completely legit statistic in the title.

1) Your example was an awful comparison for more than just the level difference, but that was the most egregious. TDS is last years expansion so it isn't "current," but it is still the same level and is therefore still "relevant" insofar as it hasn't been completely obsoleted.

2) It's not worth anything whatsoever. Your ability to solo a trash mob is completely and totally irrelevant and unrelated to the discussion. It is also completely expected that you should be able to do so.

3) No one is saying that. At all. The issue is that "solo" is not defined in context. I don't think -anyone- would argue that Mages (and by extension the other pet classes) should be able to solo normal trash mobs. The question is should they be able to solo named mobs. They believe they are entitled to do so, I personally do not, and I would argue that the evidence agrees with me, not them.

Named are by design meant to require a group to kill, which would preclude them from being soloable outside of specific circumstances. Multiple mechanics have been added to curb the soloability of nameds, and the fact that exceptional players are able to overcome them is not an argument that it is a part of their class.

Nothing in their class description says anything about named mobs, it is something they have decided themselves they think they should be able to do. There is no justification for it other then their own desire to do so. By their own logic they should be able to solo raids because "solo class."

Most of that seems to be just as much your opinion, as you state it is their "opinion" that they should be able to solo named mobs from one expansion ago. Other than the mage's description which contains that they have the ability to solo, I haven't seen any other official and specific parameters provided from EQ as to what and where they can and cannot solo. If you have, it would be helpful for you to provide a link.

"Named are by design meant to require a group to kill, which would preclude them from being soloable outside of specific circumstances."
Pet = tank. Cleric merc = heals. Mage = dps. Seems like a group to me.

I'm not arguing that they should be able to kill every name in all circumstances. There are some names that, yes, I would agree probably need a group to kill. But some of them? Who cares? Some names are hard, some are not.

And, just out of curiosity, how many expansions back is acceptable to you? 2? 3?

Oh, and by the by, your aggressive condescension doesn't move me in any way. In case you were wondering.

I am 100% confident there is not a single magician in Everquest who believes s/he should be able to solo TBM, TDS, COTF, ROF, etc raids. Unless it is something that pretty much near anyone can solo nowadays, like Anguish.

I said, and I quote:

The exact problem is that there are no "official and specific parameters provided from EQ as to what and where they can and cannot solo." How can I possibly provide a link to something that doesn't exist?
It is precisely because of this lack of specificity they have decided they should be allowed to solo any and all group content, and the moment some of them can't they come to the forums and cry and whine endlessly.

There is no specific way to answer that question, but I would say it is generally accepted that level increase expansions obsolete the difficulty of the preceding one.

I don't do it for you.

And I never said any of you believe that. I said your argument for being able to solo named mobs, which ultimately boils down to, "because solo class," is a poor argument as evidenced by my saying you could use the same argument for justify trying to be able to solo raid mobs.

It would be stupid to use it as an argument to say you deserve to solo raid mobs and it is just as stupid to use it to say you deserve to solo named mobs.

Exactly. All we have is the statement from EQ that "Magicians are able to solo". So, honestly, they have more weight on their "side" than you do on yours.

Anyway, I respectfully disagree with your opinion, is essentially all I was getting at. I'm not even a mage, but I think they have been effed with enough the last year. The warrior in me wants to take the aggro off them.

No doubt.

I keeed, I keeeeed.