balance.. where art thou?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Drogba, Dec 5, 2016.

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  1. Tucoh Augur

    DPS on suicide watch.

    I think what's missing in this thread are good parses from non-berserker DPS classes showing what they can do. The Drogba mission is a good example of a group fight because of the sustained battle. If there's a wizard/monk/necro out there that thinks they're on top, showing a parse of them in Droga would bring a lot of clarity to the thread.
    Drogba likes this.
  2. Xanathol Augur

    Why? Because one class burning can out dps classes who are not? Anyone who's grouped with a wizzy, druid, or necro know those classes can do much better on burns than what he posted. This entire thread is dumb.
    Sindaiann likes this.
  3. Tucoh Augur

    Sure, and I think that a wizzy/druid/necro posting a Droga group mission parse of them dominating the numbers Drogba posted would really prove that.
  4. ShammyAlt Journeyman

    Agreed. No one is posting these awesome numbers though, because they can't. It's all just hearsay "good DPS can destroy those numbers" but we have yet to see it. Prove it.
    Drogba likes this.
  5. Bandien Elder

    Seems to me, the only thing new here is the increase in DPS, granted it may be too large. Warriors and SKs have been asking for a bump for years. :eek:

    The title should read, "Beimeith, where art thou?".... he knows how to embellish balance from what I hear;)
    Sindaiann and Beimeith like this.
  6. Sheex Augur

    33 pages for our first Beimeth conspiracy post on a dps themed thread? What are the drama forums coming to these days :(.
    Xikteny and Beimeith like this.
  7. Warpeace Augur

    Why was this not on page 1?
    Beimeith likes this.
  8. Act of Valor Augur

    Beimeith likes this.
  9. Reval Augur

    People are saying it's all in riposte damage, but tanks tanking generally 1 npc at a time were pulling 120k at the very start of the expansion when my took was pulling 90k-100k. It's a beastlord in full TBM gear that was max aa at the end of TBM including all achievement aa's relevant to dps that had a pet with full gear including cleave, fero, and 8 pieces of gear with heroics on them and weapons. I was running tribute the whole time and used nuke potions and had a thuliasaur power source. Nowadays I glyph and have a grittooth too since the only aa I have left to get in the new expac are tradeskill aa's. At this point in parses that I value, which last for generally over an hour, I max out around 140k dps, and I saw warriors a month or so back casually linking parses where they were doing over 150k for very extended periods.

    So at this point, yes, tanks are stronger dps than dps classes are in groups. I can only attest to warrior and sk since I haven't played with any paladins since the expac released. In raids, I've had an SK in the dps group that on at least one event beat me and when he didn't on my parser he was maybe 2-3 places below me. I'm usually a top 10 parser. I've been the highest parser on several raid events despite the handicap of being a beastlord instead of a wizard or berserker. I've had raid event parses where I beat all the other beastlords in the guild combined for dps, and at least one of those had 3 other beastlords playing on the raid event. I'm a pretty solid player.

    So in TBM monks did pretty well too. In this expac from what I see monks have declined in dps. I'll only speak for melee dps here, but in terms of melee dps, the rankings I see are:
    1: berserkers - on raid burns over 1 mil dps, raid sustained usually ~200k, groups usually 160-200k.
    2: warrior/sk - can't speak for paladins, but I've seen warriors do over 800k dps on short burns where they can rampage hard. Raid sustained sk in dps group has beaten me once and basically tied me (was within 3-4k dps of me on my own parser) twice. Group content warriors have beaten me on numerous occaisions, I've seen parses linked where warriors do 150k over long durations. Keep in mind that they are also solid tanks.
    3: rogue/ranger/beastlord - raid burns vary but nowhere near/generally less than half of 1 mil, raid sustained usually 150k on old stuff, 120k'ish on new stuff, groups about 140k if pulling out all of the stops.
    4: monk. If you disagree let me know. I'd love to think that monks are well off right now. Everything I've seen has discouraged me from thinking that. They're getting closer, if I have to heal on an event a lot or something happens like if I die a monk can beat me, but if all things are even, they are a tier lower than rogue/ranger/beastlord.

    this is assuming the best player of the class, I'm not mixing in lower members of the class on a parse in these estimates. In terms of groups, I'm talking a half hour to an hour + of time, not just some 10 minute "sustained" parse. I don't care if your "sustained" dps over 10 minutes is 200k in a group if over the course of an hour your dps is 90k when some other guy has a 150k 10 minute "sustained" and over an hour does 140k for that whole time.

    I still think something should be done to make the game more interesting for bards too that maybe ups their personal contributions, but maybe that's just me.
  10. Cicelee Augur

    Since some players are asking about what a DPS class can do at maximum level, I present to you the parse of our Droga mission last night. I choose to not post the parses of the other classes because I don't want to get them changed.

    Combined: A priest of Droga in 323s, 173459k @ 537026sdps

    --- Cicely + pets 9721k @ 30098sdps (30098dps in 323s) [5.60%]

    As you can see, magicians are in serious need of assistance. They need to be addressed ASAP. I hope that the community, and the developers, take this one parse that was most likely not made up and give magicians the love that we deserve.
    Drogba, Kravn, Xanathol and 1 other person like this.
  11. Act of Valor Augur

    RIP mage pets.
  12. Beimeith Augur

    These days I like to wait to see how long it takes for someone to mention my name before I start posting.
  13. Minato Augur

  14. WorriedinNorrath Elder

    The developers may want to look into Bezerker dps. Whatever you gave them in EoK made them incredibly overpowered.
  15. Insanekitty Lorekeeper

    with .01 percent of the population being zerkers , I'm almost laughing at a nerf bat. Wait did u say nerf. I thought we established that if you have concerns, you should ask for your class to be improved not be a detriment to other classes. my 2 cents

    IK was here ( Sheex I love you)

    Where is Emodius when you need him , he would have said something special to new board member 001
    Sheex likes this.
  16. segap Augur

    They will look in to balance issues with couple select classes in about 9 months once the boost in heroic character sales dies down.
    Spellfire, Vdidar and Behelit like this.
  17. Behelit Augur

    then we all get to point and laugh at the freshly made zerkers who never get played again... I feel like we've seen this whole thing before... but where...

    Oh ya with Zerkers and decapitate.

    We finally weeded them all out and here comes round 2.
  18. p2aa Augur

    All the post is fun, but this part especially made my day.
    We went from warriors doing "routinely" 350 k DPS in page 1 to 800 k DPS, and being just beaten by zerkers . And also doubling the DPS of all other melee DPS classes !!
    Ah also warriors do 150 k DPS per hour every day !!
    Yay !!!!
    Someone has better to post than this ? Hey hey i'm sure you could find a parse with warriors doing more than zerkers and doing 2 mil DPS ? A bit of effort !!!!
  19. gotwar Augur

    It's uncannily serendipitous that you picked this number!

    Combined: A bokon fanatic in 2174s, 515473k @237108sdps ---
    #1 Gotwarx + pets 307343k@141372sdps (141372dps in 2174s) [59.62%] ---
    #2 Shadow Knight + pets 112290k@51651sdps (52447dps in 2141s) [21.78%] ---
    #3 Bard + pets 62241k@28630sdps (28788dps in 2162s) [12.07%]
    #4 Ranger 33599k@15455sdps (16502dps in 2036s) [6.52%] (lol)

    For transparency, this is a TBM raid geared Warrior with a couple EOK raid non-visible slots. I was tired of Primal Brood being short on raid tanks, so for the XP bonus weekend I took all my FV Enchanters gear and copied it to Test on a brand new Gotwarx. This was over the course of a couple hours doing the TBM conquest missions, minus the boss fight for each zone (Grummus, Lady, Damsel, EoS). It's not EOK, but TBM is a fair representation of EOK Tier 1. By design, Tier 1 is comparable to TBM: some of the mobs are harder, and some are easier.

    I have not played a Warrior in over a year, and was never very good anyway. I rolled this toon and leveled it to 105 about two days before this run. It had 11k AA's, was missing augment slots, and using the low delay EOK raid piercer (Targalon, Dragon Slayer). Would like to clearly state that I am a terrible Warrior and did a bad job of mixing in cool-downs and such. I also have no clue what constitutes a proper Warrior "burn." This was mostly singles because I just wasn't confident enough to utilize the Warrior class's tanking potential. During pulls of 2-4, which did happen a few times, I'd swap to Wurmslayer + shield. We were moving from mission to mission very quickly, so there was no time to wait for burns and such. It took us 1 1/2 hours from start to finish.

    The Shadow Knight is group geared and still getting to grips with the class. Most Test players are the definition of hyper-casual, so his numbers aren't a good representation of the class.

    The Bard is a skilled player and she definitely contributed a good portion of the total DPS via ADPS.

    The Ranger really had no idea what she was doing, did not Auspice/Cheetah/anything really. I think she had less than 100 total casts/abilities. Again, Test server.

    This is a perfect representation of what a terrible Warrior player can output DPS wise with just 1 skilled ADPS class in group. Replace me with someone who knew what they were doing and the numbers would significantly increase. Add proper ADPS and they'd shoot through the ceiling.

    You can argue whether or not EOK tank DPS is balanced or unbalanced, but don't argue the numbers because they are very real. I don't really have an opinion either way, because Enchanter, but if I was a class who's primary role was DPS I'd be a little put off by the numbers tanks are capable of right now.

    Good thread!

    Edit: inb4 "parse is biased/manufactured/riposte/agendapushing/handofgodinterfered/lrn2ply/urdpssux"
  20. Karthos Augur

    I totally agree that rangers can use some upgrades. :)
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