balance.. where art thou?

And what other people are pointing out (reading the thread does indeed help in this case) that maybe the people in some of these guilds are actually good at their classes, and it is indeed a balance issue with tanks vs DPS classes.

Have you considered maybe the tanks in your guild a far worse then the DPS in your guild? It does work both ways, however generally guilds ranked in the top 5 normally have 1 or 2 good DPS classes that merit people saying tanks are broken and balance is not even remotely close.

Does not take a rocket scientist to point this stuff out.

Kind of defeats the purpose of stripping out all the names in the logs.

I described them before but at the time of this parse, they are both rocking full TBM raid gear, current augs, 17k aa on the Monk, 22k aa on the SK. Class-appropriate 2 handers.

SK tanking one mob at a time. Bard and shammy spamming support abilities.

Did your DPS beat the "exceptional SK" from Sirene's parse? Did your tanks have any support classes? Put a melee toon in a tank group and you will also see them at 20th place.

You ask for details yet you give literally zero.
Your tanks don't know how to DPS.

My fun ceased to exist after all the nerfs the necromancer class has been through. For the record, there are a lot of other necros whose fun trickled away, too, and they've disappeared - either canceled their accounts and left the game or main changed.

I don't want Drogba's fun to stop, btw. I have friends who play SK mains. I like them, and I don't want their fun to stop, either. But here's the catch: The devs aren't going to adjust thirteen classes up. If they don't tune down some of the swarming abilities and dps of the tank classes, what they will do is jack up the mobs, making it tougher for those of us who aren't grouped with a good PC tank to do anything at all. If that happens again, it's equivalent to nerfing the other thirteen classes (okay, maybe twelve if you don't count zerkers) vs. the environment we all play in.

My pet and my "tank" merc are already so outclassed by some of the devs' previous mob tuning that I really don't want to see it happen again. So no, I don't expect to have a better chance of a group spot once this gets sorted out. I love my necro dearly, but I don't look for groups with her anymore. On the rare occasion when I log her in, I'd just like to have her not be broken any worse than she already is. And I'd like to have my new main toon not end up as broken as she is, either.

I didn't realise he was complaining about SK's being over powered.

TBH that is inherent with SK epic 2.0. Is he really wanting that nerfed?

This is me tanking (I'm a warrior) and killing 18 drachids with SK epic.
/1 Combined: A dire widow in 132s, 74600k @565149dps --- Bamkan 40452k @306455dps --- Roxor 34148k @273180dps

/1 Healing for: Bamkan -vs- Combined: A dire widow: -- Bamkan: 5785311 -- Vicar: 694220

[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 14176 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid widow for 28352 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 10842 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid silkmistress for 21684 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 32072 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid silkmistress for 64144 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 10317 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid silkmistress for 20634 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 27694 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid silkmistress for 55389 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 45903 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid silkmistress for 91807 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 38183 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid silkmistress for 92912 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 1621 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You kick a drachnid webstrander for 3242 points of damage.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You have healed Bamkan for 9642 points.
[Thu Dec 22 20:27:16 2016] You pierce a drachnid webstrander for 115889 points of damage.
Love those Riposite heals !
And in all honesty, i still had about 1/3 of the counters left when SK epic wore off....add another DPS and i could have tanked another 8-10 pretty comfortably. I was boxing it

SK's are shining right now, but all 3 tank classes are OP. If they allow all of the tank classes to tank better each expansion vs game content, it often benefits sk's vs pal/war, unless they are granted something really special to make up for our leech effects.

at character select screen, what are your actual choices right now if you know the endgame and want something powerful? beserker, sk, enc

How is that fair to the other classes? As others have stated already, must tanks be terminators as well?

I don't think it is fair that tank classes with adps can outdps monks, while giving other classes a run for their money as well. Outside of some adps benefits those classes grant to the force as a whole, what is the point in them if us tanks can do it all??

That was my point, i thought i articulated it well enough, i kinda feel like I'm repeating myself now.

!. If anything is OP here it sounds like it is the adps of other classes that needs limiting. Tanks aren't doing this kind of DPS off their own abilities. It would help if folks who are reporting these numbers could define which are the stacking abilities needing to these numbers.

2. How do you fix this without hurting the majority of players who don't see this ?

Limit riposte/auto-healing/auto-dps to 4 mobs, if they are above light blue?

But as discussed this issue is not limited to sk's. Pal's and war's can also do this without issue. Yet if you tried to run this on a super geared high AC ranger or monk they could die in quick order even with sk epic effect on them for all that riposte healing. Why would that be? Simple its stances.

Remove tank stances and adjust as needed but thats the real issue with tanking this many current or high con mobs at once. Prior to permanent 35% mitigation even raid geared tanks who out classed the content by miles were still not pulling this many high con mobs at once. It was limited to weaker dark blue or light blue cons because after that the incoming damage was to much to overcome even with leech riposte heals. Stances shifted this to higher con mobs.

2 hand stance doesn't give mitigation.

2h stance actually REDUCES your defensive abilities. Yet tanks can still handle 10-20+ current expansion mobs anyways.
Plus, why do tanks even need a dps stance. They should never be considered dps. Unless rangers/monks/bl start getting stances that let them tank like an SK, it is broken and unfair.

Tanks are WAY to strong both with tanking and dps. Upping every other class will only turn the game into WoW. Stances need to be nerfed, ae agro and tank heal abilities need to be limited to 4-6 mobs only. Plus tanks need to do less dps.
Tanks (SK, War more than Pal) are incredibly overpowered.
As well, SK epic 2.0 needs to be level capped at 75. It is trival to get, yet it is the most powerful item in the game.

.

I don't care how many mobs tank classes can tank. I would just like to see pets be able to tank 1-2 mobs without getting one rounded.

What the flip is wrong w some y'all. Go befriend a Shadow Knight and go win EQ. I must be missing something!

It seems you just discovered AE groups - congratulations. Groups have been pulling up to entire zones, hitting an avoidance discipline (which more than just tank classes can do fyi), and AE'ing all the mobs before the discipline falls for quite some time now. As for smaller pulls without an avoidance disc, that has more to do with healing than tanking, thanks not just to leech effects, but other effects that trigger heals as well (sluggishness, reptile, intersession, harmonious, etc); check your yo-yo'ing hp bar (with no leech effects running) in your video for proof enough of that.

As for dps, you are not doing zerker, rogue, wizard, ranger, etc dps. There's a couple of classes that may need some attention (ex. monk sustained) but most are in a more than healthy state. SKs in particularly are finally where they should be in a relative dps position on burns as the dps centric tank. Warriors also are in a much healthier spot.

Most of your feedback just screams 'new to high end EQ' more than any substance of imbalance.

It all started with a small group of Warriors whining about disparity of weapon ratios between Warriors and Knights, because those Warriors wanted to utilize overcap shield AC (which they didn't need)

That became Shield Specialist which was given too many ranks and 1h+shield outdamaged both dw and 2h. Stances were introduced to help out our DW and 2H damage beat SS but they ended up predictably breaking the game even further.

Then in a move of total hilarity Knights got the Warrior stances and everyone stood agape.

Then they turned Shield Specialist into Weapon Mastery and basically added huge stance-neutral boosts to passive tank damage, and here we are today.

They could have just let Warriors share the Knight weapon tables and we wouldn't really have had this issue.

Tanks arent tankning no 20 mobs thats dark blue or above with a 2hander you guys keep exagerating the topic further every page. honesty for warrs the big dps gain dont even Come from SS or weapon stance compared to b4 the x-pak hit the dps that warriors gained comes from battle leap buff they gave to zerkers .But dident think to check what other Class use that effect so when it be came perma for them it also did for warrs

A good spot is able to swarm tank yellow mobs and do the dps of a dps class?
Apparently good spot = brokenly overpowered to you.

It's interesting to notice that the SK that did 162 k DPS and the warrior that did 75 k DPS were in the same group, with a shaman and a bard. They had the same ADPS support. The SK has been said to be elite skilled, let's assume that the warrior is good skilled.
The benchmark to retain to make some class balance is not elite skill, but reasonable skill.
So, for a class balance purpose, tanks in a DPS group with ADPS are doing 75 k DPS in 10 min. And certainly not 162 k DPS.
And then, you see that most DPS in DPS groups with ADPS are doing way more than 75 k DPS. And those that do less than this are slacking. I'm sure a good DPS class can do > 100 k DPS in 10 min.
Clearly some caster DPS is missing in the parse (not possible necros end so low in a 10 min parse or they are very bad)

Hah so now "tanks" is one class? For class balance purpose, SKs are doing 162k and warriors are doing 75k, would be a better argument.

By your logic, we should also note that the ROG who was grouped with the WAR/SK only did 82k DPS.
So now the reasonable baseline for ROG is 82k DPS which is pretty much same as the WAR, and we are back to square one.

You're also assuming the Monk at 164k is not "elite" and therefor can not be compared to an "elite" SK.
And you missed the fact that the ROG&MNK who actually beat the "elite" SK had BST&BER support, which the SK did not have.

The list goes on, your argument is severely flawed.

You don't compare slackers, you compare what the class is actually capable of at max potential and then lower-skilled players of each class will also line up.

You balance NPC difficulty around AVERAGE skill level, or else regular players can't do the quests. You balance PC interaction around MAX skill level.