Why we should stop boxing on Mangler

It's cool, im sure after 2 months of these same posts they will now change the rules of Mangler after launch.

You say this like people who don't box are somehow persecuted, Like it's totally impossible to play on a server with boxers. This would be less amusing if you didn't say it in a thread that had a person saying he wants to train all boxers, and another person saying he wants to report all boxers, because he believes that nobody actually uses more than one computer.

I suppose I can make my own thread instead of watching this conversation evolve. In the mean time; however, I am inviting the avid boxers to let us know... Is it ok with you guys if we got one single (new) all-boxing-banned server?

Oh god, we really don't need yet another thread on this. As to your question, Don't you all have a no boxing server in P99? Why would DBG want to make a server that a good chunk of their customer base can't access?

Although, if they did, Do you think there would be pages upon pages of threads railing against the evils of Pre-made groups? Because on this very thread someone complained about those, too.

Edit: No, I don't care if they make a no-boxing server, But it'll never happen.

I don't mind boxers. Their presence is putting money into DB's pockets. Should they stop making money, then no more EQ.

Just my 2 cents.

Yes. Fine with me, if we get a non truebox server--with aoc's--at the same time.

Of course it's on you guys to not flip out when you realize people still box on your no boxing server.

I would like it if they gave you one of these servers. Enjoy playing it after velious/ldon/GoD. Your true-box cycle always seems to take a major hit because all you guys want to do is replay the same eras over and over, while not ever letting a new server type come in to play. They may as well make a no boxing server that resets to classic after 3 months of velious to keep you guys contained.

You true-box fans are always so quick to throw shade at people who ask for a standard TLP since there hasn't been one since RF/LJ, screaming from the roof tops about how great and amazing true-box is. DBG added a lot of features because of how those servers went down that we would like to be able to enjoy as well. Yet here we are, you got your true-box servers and it still isn't enough for you. When will you realize the jerk boxers don't care about your true-box rules?

A one box league like path of the exile and your characters and gear go to live servers at end of league? Damn best idea ever

It would be my sincerest hope that you all (I say "you all" not as a sign of disrespect, but only responding to your use of "we") did get such a server. It really bothers me that so many people play gatekeeper on these forums. There are those boxers that would love a non-Truebox AoC server - and there are people that would love a completely single-box server. It would be nice to see one of each.

This us versus them attitude needs to absolutely stop. It's destroying what little community we have left.
What the situation we have here is simply this: Because of the new servers (As with every new server), we have a large influx of new/returning players. And they're seeing the box armies forefront and center.

This is not the experience that they was sold on. On the surface, most may know little of the politics/drama/etc. and many are coming in with the memories of the past. And boxing, while it was an available option in the past was mostly the exception and not the rule.

And this thread has absolutely, 100% nothing to do with TrueBox versus a non TrueBox server, so instead of being apart of the problem, be apart of the solution.

I feel like a lot of the anti-boxer have never joined a group with a 2 or 3 boxer who can play well and chat at the same time. The role-playing immersion argument is dead in the water, it is rare for people to really roleplay in eq anymore, although I try to toss a little in to support Erudites.

We all have fond memories of the old days in 1999/2000, but times change, things evolve, etc. It is best to accept change and keep going, not resist change.

Its a 20 year old game. Perhaps boxing should be required; it makes as much sense and crying for it to be completely denied.

I'm indifferent on the whole issue but just from reading this thread it sounds like the main issue is with the 6+ box groups that hold down camps 24/7 and are likely using bots/code to circumvent the rules in place by daybreak. It really doesn't sound like most people have an issue with the 2 or 3 boxers that just like to fill multiple roles in the group.

Actually that's taking my analogy and assuming that the guy sitting alone is going to be a thug. Maybe he just wants to sit their and enjoy his meal like most people do. Just because you got mugged by someone does not mean that everyone who has a common feature, interest, or trait is also going to be a thug it just means you encountered an end of story.

I have encountered more single account holders over the years who have been disruptive, disrespectful, and intentionally tried to grief others than any boxers. Using your mindset I should try to ban anyone who does not box because I have had bad encounters with single account holders. The reality is I just see people for their actions and don't judge an entire group of individuals based on the actions of one individual.

Every one of these pointless, trolling posts (most likely made by the same couple of people under a myriad of new account names) is fantastic PR for boxers and creates more and more affinity for them. So, well done!

This is a higher-quality post than it may seem at first glance. For myself, when I advocate for a boxing server, I've found it hard to describe what can be good about boxing because I too have personal preferences for how much boxing I feel is "too much." But is it fair for me to advocate for drawing a line based on my preferences - not really? But you're right to say that, essentially, boxing does not have to mean "antisocial," "unhelpful," or "immersion breaking." On Fippy, Ragefire, and Lockjaw, my friend and I would often drop some boxes to grab other people to group with (we both like to 3 box). In so doing, we met some of our best EQ friends, some of who we have now been playing with for years, hell some of whom we have meet up with outside of game. Some of those friendships have become some of my best friendships. One came to my wedding!

Truebox is fairly half-baked and seems to have outlived its purpose. Anyone interested in seriously pursuing the krono market (the actual camp-stealing mage armies) has already got around it. Only casual boxers feel left behind.

I'm not saying it didn't serve it's purpose for the EQ marketing team, it has and that must be recognized. But it's too in-between.

Boxing should be absolutely forbidden on some servers, totally allowed on others, going forward.

How, exactly do you plan on accomplishing that though?

That's the problem. So many people ask for it but no one has given a good explanation of how it would actually work.

IP restrictions are easy to get around. These days most people probably have two or three options already available with mobile hotspots etc.

Simply eyeballing it will catch some but not all, and probably a fair amount of false positives. Some two boxers are virtually indistinguishable from two actual players in most circumstances. Someone boxing six or more will be fairly obvious in most situations, but not all -- a group of casters won't look much different boxed vs not boxed most of the time, except when moving around, if the boxer is manually hitting keys at different times to nuke on each toon. (Or using a delay on keey broadcasting.)

Any other options?

So after reading all this because I'm at work and I have to time to do so. I have concluded the people complaining about boxers are people looking for a group and do not box. While boxers tend not to say anything on the forums because they are actually killing mobs and playing everquest.

So when you join a group and it has a boxer in it do you leave? If not then do not complain. If you do leave the kudos on you on being LFG and complaining here on the forums.

Also most boxers I've group with will pass on loot to mains 1st! If they do not o well because I'm only doing to work of one when they are doing the work of 2+.

You knew the mangler faux hardcore nerd rage was just looking to come out at some point. Ahem, here is the thread.

It totally slips past the "I'm an a-hole and don't care" angst you get from the hardcore these days that the only thing they have that I, as a casual, do not have is more time...not skills. And it totally wizzes by them at the speed of a SR-71 that the reason many box is limited playtime and a genuine desire to be polite and not join into groups that they will have to unexpectedly leave.

So simple, but so hard for so many to fathom.