Why we should stop boxing on Mangler

What's intended and reality are two entirely different subjects. Monks being able to pull using FD is completely unintended. The didn't nerf FD or remove it from the game. I'm not sure if on live they ever intended that the rez tokens would be used for a magician to die and then a rogue /corpsedrag past all the dangerous trash and then be revived to CotH other members of the group but that's exactly what they have. In fact now magicians can call the entire group at once.

There's no such thing as some sort of pure and divine "spirit of the game" and there never has been.

My reply to you is cut & paste of the first post in this topic/discussion thus we have gone full circle.

The idea that I am depriving someone else of something because I box a second character is inherently toxic and displaying a sense of entitlement. That sort of attitude was why I gave up PUG's midway through the original Luclin expansion and began boxing and grouping only with friends or guildmates.

Ok so explain the following quotes :

“Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen is considered to be a spiritual successor to “classically-spirited” MMORPGs such as EverQuest”

“Pantheon focuses on challenging content and the social aspects of gameplay, such as grouping and guilds, making friends, and earning a reputation in the community.”

Interesting and insightful point that my friend brought up while discussing multiboxing... he mentioned Age of Conan not really having the problem, which is interesting because the way the combat was designed in the game, it would, and did, make it very difficult to multibox in most cases. Pantheon is going the same, or similar, route, by making the gameplay active enough that it would be difficult to play more than one, or two, effectively. This is also going to be supplemented with heavy enforcement of rules against cheating, macros and whatever else that would make the whole process easier. So, while it might be possible to multibox in Pantheon with some practice, it won't be the same as EQ thankfully.

AFAIK Pantheon is vaporware

Let me elaborate, I've played EQ continuously since late 99, my main was born early in 2000.
After years of that claptrap that the Pantheon quotes alluded too I finally had enough and went the box/RL friends route.

Despite all the fluff about community people left in droves to go play the latest and greatest thing and since TLP's came around they'll show up again to tell all the non-quitters that they are doing it wrong

You can play how you like but don't try to pump sunshine up my kilt with all that spirit of the game nonsense. I've got a lot more experience with that game and if anyone should be able to tell you what the spirit of the game is it's not people who can't even stick with a single character on a single server

Nothing prevents boxers from doing any of the above. I almost never have less than two toons loaded, and yet 80% of my time in game is spent in groups or raids with other players, and the 20% where I'm not grouped with someone, I am still chatting away in guild chat.

You're not DBG, You don't get to say what the "spirit" of the game is. And, I play socially. With my guild. We group up to do things together, We raid 3 nights a week, I find that more socially rewarding than grouping with 5 other random people I'll likely never speak to again.

As soon as you pay my 5 accounts you can tell me how to play not before. And, If I didn't have an option to box, I wouldn't play the game. Before I boxed I played a druid, the only thing I did was quad kite and root/rot.

So please fill me in on how I would be forced to play the game "the way it was intended". Which I'm assuming still means the normal Anti-boxing Zealot standard of when, where and how you want us to.

I've never been more sure that the anti-boxing crowd is only against boxing out of sheer greed and selfishness. It's the classic kid crying to their parents "Mommy, Timmy won't play with me!" You're angry that we won't play the game the way you want us to, and that you're not immediately invited to our groups and showered with the loot you think you so richly deserve.

Do you also have an issue with Pre-made groups who only hang out with their group? staying consistent is key here.

This is what people wanted:

“we believe that the best of MMORPG design is yet to come. We understand how healthy challenge in a game promotes teamwork, often blooming into profound relationships and enduring memories. We focus on these poignant elements of design and aim to provide our players with environments conducive to building reputations, friendships and alliances—as well as rivalries and notoriety”

This is what we got:

“There is a 24 box group of mages on mangler.. just destroying the HGs.

How does this happen? They are not 24 individual screens. They are replicating movement and stuff.”

Go play Pantheon then. Everquest is not the box-free paradise you are looking for.

Spoken like a true toxic boxer haha

I agree with everything you've posted and should add that it is also the developers handling the game rules at fault as well... They continuously allow these box teams to sub up even though there are supposed rules against boxing yet, within the first week there were already 5players all on auto-follow behind a 6th person leading his/her toons to go level up and take away the gaming experience from other people who have not played in 10+ years... it is mostly Daybreakgames's fault for not policing any of this garbage gameplay. The box teams blatantly roam around and Kill-Steal targets at will and there is more time wasted for the single player or group of players that may be re-learning the game all over again. So, that leaves boxteam guy/gal with the loot from taking away the game experience from one of a few players and WHAT DOES DAYBREAK DO????? Absolutely nothing... It is shameful what these servers are turning into. Greed has certainly revealed itself with this company and will continue to lose subscriptions with this type of crappy passive management.

There aren't rules against boxing beyond true box, Try again.

Yes, And?

I'm totally sure that every boxer is totally doing it just to annoy you.

Boxing isn't against the rules so long as you follow the true box rules.

That's not a boxing problem, that's a Jerk problem.

From what I read subs are actually up, not declining.

What until that first month subscription is up and then let us know if that is still the case.

Only solution I can think of is making more picks .

This won't help unless they make the other very needed change - /pick succoring a group to zone in, which is something I am a huge proponent of.

I could get behind that with one change, make it so the second pick in say 30 minutes succors you. that way you're stopping people from pick sniping, but not punishing someone for seeing an empty pick pop up and picking over when they're already at a camp.

Its funny that you just apply a toxic label to anyone who boxes lol

Seek mental help

I like this, I had tried to think of a way to make it a less onerous process but never considered a successive cap like that. Bravo.

Mainly, when I try to think of this kind of stuff, I try to think about largely-automated processes that ameliorate some of the difficulties in having a largely-revoked PNP. Even though boxing takes much of the hate on these forums, the core crises here (subjective, depending on who you ask of course - some people seem to enjoy this) is that players are completely free to go for the throat in a game of limited resources. The history of EQ is replete with examples of people engaging in questionable conduct to attain their goals, especially in the non-instanced raid scene, but often enough as well in non-raid content.

There is almost no way to police even the conduct that actually manages to violate the remaining rules, sadly.