Roxxlyy, I think I found a flaw in Daybreak Logic regarding recent suspensions

There's a big difference between those two things. The description is that if you physically harm someone, you know that act is not good. In the game, you don't necessarily know a particular result is unintended or "bad". You may say "getting two valuable items very quickly isn't valid", but if you kill a mob, and it respawns in a couple of minutes, both times with good loot, that's not an "exploit", so that description is not sufficient to reapply to other such situations.

This thread, along with all the others similar to it, reminds me of the idiot who went through a McDonald's drive thru a decade or two ago, got coffee, spilled it on themself, then sued McDonald's for several million dollars because McDonald's did not put a warning sign on their coffee.

Or the idiot who was running late to work one morning, saw his dress shirt was wrinkly, then plugged in his iron to iron his shirt while still wearing the shirt. He sued the iron manufacturer because they did not put a warning on their iron stating that you should not iron clothing while wearing said clothing.

Have we devolved so much as a species that we have to have our hands held and be told every single thing to do and not do?

Common sense tells 99% of EQ players that a mission with a six hour lockout means you can get chest loot rewards every six hours. Not every six minutes.

I feel for the 1%. I hope they don't drink coffee or use an iron...

I love Thrillho confusing actual crimes with playing a video game.

Unfortunately.

You sound like one of my sons who had a suspension from XBox Live because of something he did in a video game. "But its just a video game, Dad, its not real! Why won't you fight them for me?!"

It's not really surprising. Consumer rights in the video game industry is a pretty interesting topic. So far, companies have generally been allowed to overstep what would normally be considered appropriate in other venues. The few times things have gone to court it's been a mix. EULAs are sometimes held up and sometimes not. It's a bit of a mess and I've read about some movement forward in the EU at least but definitely not in the U.S.

Like most things, context is what matters. Are you hacking, did you enter false information, or are you doing other things from outside the scope of the game to gain an advantage or break an actual law. Versus doing something from within the context of the game which appears to be allowed. Then you have a line between what's a bug and what's a feature is often difficult to figure out. Just look at all the times we ask for clarification on the forums and never get an answer.

Except that is one of the most misrepresented lawsuits that everybody quotes but doesn't know the facts. Like there were over 700 complaints about injuries due to the extreme temperature that they served their coffee, or that the company knew of the dangers and injuries due to temp for 10 years but did nothing to mitigate the risk to their costumers.

The person who was burned was found partially responsible due to the spill, and offered to settle for lost wages and medical bills ($20,000). The jury however saw fit to award a much higher 3 million due to the fact that the temperature that the company required coffee to be served at was sufficient to cause 3rd degree burns in 3-7 seconds (which the customer got and needed skin grafts). The company's expert witness's stance was that the few burns out of billions of cups of coffee, the number of burns was insignificant.

After the trial one juror said over the course of the trial he came to realize the case was about “callous disregard for the safety of the people.” Another juror said “the facts were so overwhelmingly against the company.”

I'm not saying that there arn't frivolous lawsuits, just that this is a bad example.

Don't know why this in game stuff is being compared to serious real life crimes. A better metaphor would be jaywalking IMO. If you have 1000 folks seen and caught doing this infraction, but only 10 are punished, then it's a problem. All the while, far more serious "exploits" are going on near by but this minor infraction is being focused on. To make matters worst, many of those folks whom do things similar to jaywalking over the years, if not worst, are trolling the few jaywalkers whom happened to be punished.

Totally. A lot of people around like to talk about things they have no clue about.

I'm not sure if it was the same case as the most well known but a professor of mine, in an engineer class, liked to point out one of the issues with one of the coffee spell/burn cases. In one, it happened in Denver or some Colorado city that's at a higher than typical altitude. They failed to take into account that water boils at a lower temperature at higher altitudes. Even though it was partially the customers fault because they're the idiots who spilled the coffee. It was also way hotter than what's considered safe like you described. And it was that way because of negligence by the company.

It's also sad that so many people automatically side with companies over individuals even when given zero facts.

I'm not confused at all. I'm just replying to absurdity with absurdity.

We are a society where big companies (like McDonalds) and or their people can make you think that your description of the situation (that, yes, sounds ridiculous) involving the hot coffee is actually an accurate description of the situation

What you don't know is that the coffee was so hot it was unfit for human consumption. You think its hot when you drink it? It spilled on her legs when she was parked, it spilled on her legs and was so hot it practically melted her skin off (I've seen the images, they are horrible). Just think if she had tried to drink it instead when considering the mouth and tongue are much more delicate than your regular skin. The lady had to have skin grafts on her legs due to how bad the burns were! Now I've spilled coffee on myself before and I didn't have to have skin grafts. That's how you know there's something else to it; it wasn't what you thought it was.

How does spilling coffee on yourself or any other hot liquid make you an "idiot"? Accidents happen. Why be so hostile?

To the people who say we should have known better, or we get what we deserve, I'd like to ask if any of you used a gyrospire relocating device over the last 10 years? If you did, did you wait out the 30 min (broken) cooldown, or did you use it before 30 minutes was up?

And btw, are we there yet?????? When can we log in?

An interesting part of this is that I doubt these cases are being pursued to the fullest extent that they can. If the first couple of courts you take a lawsuit to end up not ruling in your favor, it doesn't mean you're wrong, you usually have to go through a number of courts to get the best most thorough ruling, but if a consumer who is limited in his resources doesn't pursue the case to the higher courts, everyone thinks "OMG, we customers don't have the rights we thought we had", when that's not the case, someone just didn't expend the resources to really fight in the courts to get the ultimate answer. To be fair, they may find they can't afford it anyhow.

Not true- a warning doesn’t necessarily decrease a behavior. A punishment does.

Spilling the coffee on yourself doesn't make you an idiot. Going to the hospital over it doesn't make you an idiot. It's the "This is McDonalds's fault and I'm going to sue them for not telling me that coffee, a typically hot beverage, is hot, instead of taking responsibility for my own clumsiness" mentality that makes you an idiot.

I feel the need to reply to this, just to be part of it before it's locked and thrown away forever.

So, to that end, hello everyone. How are you today?

Not too shabby, thanks for asking. How about yourself? I just got home from work. Decent day. I just realized I need to replace the CO2 tank on my soda maker soon. I don't actually drink soda because it's not typically good for you. I just use it to carbonate water and add a splash of flavoring. But that's not to knock anyone else for drinking soda or anything like that. Everybody has their vices which is fine. I just personally don't feel that high quantities of sucralose / high fructose corn syrup needs to be one of mine. Though admittedly I could probably do a little better with my diet, but I don't wanna be neurotic about it and hey, life's short right? Gotta enjoy some stuff while we're here.

Also gonna raid tonight. So that's cool too. Hope all is well on your end and you're finding EQ to be a worthy medium with which to pass your time.

The flaw is the belief the process used to verify exploiters in this case was not faulty or buggy. People were suspended for simply running the mission start to finish. Daybreak really needs to go back and look into this and verify their results.

Nah. You can feel that way all you want. But they really don't "need" to do anything of the sort.

No they don't have to. Its their credibility though.

You don't keep customers or get them to keep buying things if the service is bad.