Roxxlyy, I think I found a flaw in Daybreak Logic regarding recent suspensions

Then why didn't they allow the petitions to run their course? I had an account suspended over this and 4 out of 6 players did not get suspended that I grouped with to run these missions. Something was obviously wrong with the process you used to determine someone actually exploited.

7 day suspensions seemed to be the ones handed out just because Daybreak was uncertain.

Suspensions aren't warnings, they're penalties. You can't frame it any other way.

Except....multiple people made the exact same “point” in the 30 pager. Tons, in fact. Over and over and over.

The “it’s been this way for years thus it *must* be intentional!!?!?” logic was the single most used defense by the small army of New Users crying about getting caught and then claiming innocence.

So no, we absolutely didn’t need a new thread for this garbage.

Actually you can. If they had considered banning for this and they only suspended people instead then it was definitely a warning.

That's not how warnings work. Try it in any other context. I was going to fire you for doing that thing we've let slide for years that but I decided to dock your pay for 3 weeks instead. As a warning. Yeah, right.

I've certainly taken it as a warning. Exploit, get suspended or banned. Even stuff that's been established over years, seemingly accepted by the devs. I'm certain people are going to be questioning things now - as they have started to already in the forums.

I'm asking, not only in this situation, but in future situations; Why does Daybreak not take a more active stance to clarify specific things which it sees as "bugs" that are viewed as "unintentional" and or that rise to the level of "actionability"?

Or I could word it like this:

Going forward, I would like to request that Daybreak take, at least, a slightly more active stance in clarifying "bugs" that are "unintentional" and that rise to the level of "actionability" and take a more active stance in fixing "bugs" that it would see as sufficient to warrant adverse actions against players. I'm not saying that lack of action is pure justification for what might otherwise be referred to as player misconduct, but that lack of action invites and can even placate or otherwise confuse and or deceive players into thinking that something is "ok" when, by your standards, it is not. After all, if it was that significant, why wasn't it patched?

I'm sorry that you see it as garbage. That is unfortunate. I will be sure to recall that when you are suspended for something you otherwise saw as "trivial" and or "intentional" and agree with me, if not situationally, then conceptually.

I mean no disrespect for this post. The problem isn’t the severity of the punishment, it’s failure to take responsibility for DBG own mistakes and fix game breaking issues in a reasonable amount of time. If this was addressed when it was first became a problem, this would have never been issue.

I know it's crazy but another novel idea, as a warning, would be if they communicated with the player base. Post something to a forum or message board of some kind? Maybe they have one somewhere they could use. Where they could say hey there's this missions we plan on finishing but it's xmas break and we don't have time. It's got X issue and if anyone exploits it we're going to take X action. We know we don't usually do that sort of thing but this time it's serious. thanks!

I understand, but I think this is a bit more of an effective route for them. They're giving us all a warning not only about this exploit, but about all future exploits. It forces us to think about how we're playing the game, and to question what doesn't seem exactly right.

If you found a way to do a /kill on a current raid boss, that would be an exploit. You shouldn't have the option to keep doing it as much as possible until the devs get wind of it and say "Please don't use the /kill exploit, it will be patched in 12 days."

Quite the opposite. It just tells me that it's completely arbitrary when they enforce things. And when they do they're likely to make mistakes and suspend some innocent people. Might as well just play the game how you like.

“Punishment is a process by which a consequence immediately follows a behavior which decreases the future frequency of that behavior. Like reinforcement, a stimulus can be added (positive punishment) or removed (negative punishment).”

By definition, the suspensions were punishment.

just quit with the whining if you don't understand what not to do when maintaining a fair competitive mmo then this isn't the game for you yes some did some didn't who cares no one obviously cares for you complaints I'm on the bench too and this is day 7 iirc I come here to get new info on when i can get back to my main. I don't care if ya did or didn't no use to respond i promise if your names not in red telling me i can log in i wont read it get over it quit playing dumb talking about where is the line .Obviously there saying we arnt gonna tolerate it anymore we don't have the budget to change everything we do in developing HA tasks to accommodate a bunch of adults who should be playing for fun fairly yes we all like to race to progress and we did so in a way they didn't approve didn't want to change the design so they gave you a clear answer to what will happen in the future. get over it in case you didn't read the suspensions will run there full terms you wont change there mind or make them change the way they do things sorry that's fact. now someone please be so kind as to let me know when I can log in my account. I believe some of you may believe your own lies about it wasn't you I believe some of you are innocent frankly i don't care neither do the others here yes I am one who exploited No i didn't think I was gonna get any consequences but i learned don't do that again because ftp sucks and I like my main Grow up get over it. and learn from this dear god people the line is there if you didn't see it after all this your not going to good luck finding another mmo with 17 years of content and the memories we gained here also Sorry you wasted years of your life and get banned for wanting to have the last word. Can ewe get one of those emails saying we are allowed to return so i don't have to endure anymore childishness please?

Interestingly enough I read once that they considered putting a raid boss in the game that you had to /hug to defeat and acquire loot. The devs claimed they decided not to implement it because they thought that no one would ever figure it out. Is it possible they realized that it could be construed as an exploit if they hadn't explained it to anyone? By the currently presented logic of Daybreak, it could have been construed by players to be an "unintentional bug", and therefor an "exploit" and would have deterred people from acting on it for fear of being suspended. I think this just further proves we really need "bugs" or "exploits" that are considered "actionable" by Daybreak to be clarified, even if it seems preposterous, it will give those of us who don't have malicious intent, but may be curious etc, to avoid adverse acts by the GMs.

I might as well just start robbing banks, since some guy two towns over was convicted of it and he was innocent. Or perhaps I should sharpen my scale into a point and go stabbin', Roberto style, since the law doesn't specifically say that my scale shouldn't be sharpened into a 8-3/8" spike and used to stab people.

Warning: an experience or sight that serves as a cautionary example to others.

Take it either way.

Actually it is illegal to physically harm someone. Now, if you don't realize that your particular actions may harm someone, then you'll certainly have your day in court to make that claim. The guy in California who claims he accidentally shot that woman and who wasn't in the country legally, wasn't convicted of murder because he didn't realize his actions would result in her death or other extreme harm. That doens't mean he's not going to incur a consequence, it just means it likely won't be as severe as it otherwise would have been.

Sorry, but it meets the criteria for punishment.

So every single possible way to harm someone is illegal? Even if I sharpen my scale in to a 8-3/8" spike? But that's not specifically written!

For the record, I know it's illegal to hurt someone. I'm not about to go stabbing people Roberto style. Nor rob a bank (incidentally, also Roberto style). I'm also not going to find exploits in the game that aren't specifically written. And if I do by chance find them, I'm certainly not going to repeat them over and over again until I'm given a written warning by a dev not to. This wave of suspensions is enough of a warning for me.

Kinda like how a suspension for 1-3 weeks is less severe than a ban?

A circle is round and so is an oval. It can be both, take it how you want. Personally, I'm still able to play the game, so I'm leaning more towards it being a warning than a punishment for me.